Republicans Grow Spine After Being SHUT OUT Of $825 Billion Bailout

In public – and eagerly devoured by an Obama-worshiping press – Barack Obama and his team of advisers have framed the process of crafting a stimulus package as one that will be inclusive and bipartisan in nature.

But in private – and now happily increasingly in public as well – Democrats are telling Republicans where they can stick their objections to Democrats acting like money grows on trees and that the government can dig the economy out of a hole by digging deeper and faster.

Obama had the pretension of talking about his plan passing with 80 votes in the Senate.  How about 178 forks in your eye instead?  Obama talked about going through the budget “line by line” to cut out waste, but can’t even do that with his own spending initiative.

The Republicans may actually grow a spine as Democrats shut them out of a room so they can craft a bill featuring little actual stimulus but massive spending to fund projects that Democrats have always wanted.

“There was no Republican input at all involved in what House Democrats outlined today,” Boehner, R-Ohio, said at a news conference at the Capitol. “I just took a moment to look over the draft from Chairman [David] Obey and the draft or outline from Chairman [Charlie] Rangel. Oh, my God.

“I just can’t tell you how shocked I am at what we’re seeing. You know, it’s clear that they’re moving on this path along the flawed notion that we can borrow and spend our way back to prosperity.”

Boehner also said:

“We expressed our concerns about some of the spending that’s being proposed in the House bill,” House Minority Leader John Boehner said after meeting with Obama.

“How can you spend hundreds of millions of dollars on contraceptives?” Boehner asked. “How does that stimulate the economy?”

And would that the hundreds of millions of dollars on contraceptives was the only issue.  This spending bill (i.e. NOT a “stimulus” package) features $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts so they can finance more insults to Jesus displayed in jars of urine.  It features $400 million to throw away on “climate change” research.  But the “mother of all pork” is the $4.19 BILLION that will go to Obama front group ACORN.  This package is more about instilling old socialist-welfare packages than it is about stimulating the economy.

“Stimulus”?  The Congressional Budget Office has said that at least 25% of the Obama bailout would not even be spent before 2011.  GOP Whip Eric Cantor has compiled a sizable list of media sources reporting just that fact. That won’t help our economy when we need it – which is RIGHT NOW.  And only about 12% of the spending can even be construed as “stimulus.”  The Wall Street Journal rightly states that the massive socialist pork package has nothing to do with the economy.

Nancy Pelosi expressed the bi-partisan spirit of Democrats:

“Yes, we wrote the bill. Yes, we won the election,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told reporters yesterday, saying Republicans were not being realistic in their expectations.

Meanwhile, Pelosi all but predicts that the $825 billion figure is going to continue to balloon higher:

Pelosi suggested that the package, currently at $825 billion, could become even larger.

“It has grown,” Pelosi said, “and we’re still in the process.”

Barack Obama put his feelings about bi-partisanship this way:

“I won,” Obama noted matter-of-factly, according to sources familiar with the conversation.

Obama met with Republicans to tell them all how wonderful he was, assuring them how open he was to bipartisan compromise.  Nice gesture undermined by its sheer showy meaninglessness.   Obama talked about compromise, but the bill stayed the same hard-core partisan waste of money.

To those of you who believe that Obama was the king of the fairies, and that happiness and fluttering butterflies would follow him wherever he went, he is already presiding over the same-old, same-old:

The GOP’s shrunken numbers, particularly in the Senate, will make it difficult for Republicans to stop the stimulus bill, but the growing GOP doubts mean that Obama’s first major initiative could be passed on a largely party-line vote — little different from the past 16 years of partisan sniping in the Clinton and Bush eras.

To their credit, not a single Republican supported the Obama bailout and social spending package.  All 178 Republicans in the House of Representatives turned it down.  But Nancy has her vote.  American wanted Demcorats to run the country, and how they get to see what that will mean for them.  As of right now (there’s time for it to mushroom even more yet), it means an additional $350 billion in interest payments over the next ten years.  CNN reports that the plan with interest will be $1.2 trillion.

Why does Barack Obama want “bipartisan support”?  If this massive spending program would really “stimulate” an economic  turnaround, why would he even want Republicans horning in on his credit?  Why not pass it, and crush the Republicans for good for failing to support this wonderful legislation?  Because he wants cover, that’s why.  When this mother of all pork fiascos fails, he doesn’t want Democrats absorbing all the blame for it.

Personally, I feel this way: let the Democrats ram it through on a highly partisan and ideologically-driven vote.  Let them pile it as high as they can with all the lavish pork their greedy little brains can imagine.  Let them imperiously shove all kinds of liberal socialist spending onto the country.  And let Republicans stand against it, vote against it, predict it will fail horribly, and then hang it around Democrats’ necks like a giant, dead, rotting albatross in the coming months and years ahead.

Democrats don’t need Republicans to transform our market based economy into a socialist government-run economy.  Fine.  Just as long as they don’t have the naked chutzpah to even ask for it, much less expect it.

Don’t ask us for a kiss while you’re trying to rape us, Democrats.  Expect to get your eyes gouged out, your nose broken, and as much other damage as we can possibly do to you.

17 Responses to “Republicans Grow Spine After Being SHUT OUT Of $825 Billion Bailout”

  1. hl Says:

    I think the Republicans standing up and voting NO is a victory of sorts. I applaud every one of them and the Dems who joined them.
    I pray they can stay clear minded and maintain their “backbone” and resist his Socialist agenda every step of the way.
    Perhaps they are realizing that you cannot cross the aisle and compromise with power hungry deceiving snakes. Those who deludedly think themselves to be “superior….more enlightened…more compassionate” rational human beings. I certainly hope so, it’s about time!
    I called my congressman in DC yesterday morning to tell him to represent me and vote no on the bill.
    His aide talked my ear off for about 15 minutes telling me all they were doing to oppose this bill and write one that would work. It was great to listen to him
    He encouraged me to tell others to call their representatives. He said the phones had been ringing since the day before and that it mattered.
    He emphasized the need for people at the “grass root” level to be informed and mobilized.

    You asked on another thread.

    How do we fight?

    What do we do?

    I’ve been thinking about those questions since reading them.
    Here are a few thoughts.
    We pray, pray, pray as NoBama Repub stated and ask for wisdom in waging this war.
    We stay in the truth, educate and inform every opportunity we get.
    We support those who are on the front lines when they fight for conservative principles.
    We take care of ourselves and our families and prepare for difficult times.
    We don’t give up or give in to those who lie, pretend and deceive. We resist those who want to put us, our children and grandchildren into servitude, change this country and take away our freedoms.
    We pray, stand, resist with truth and fight for what’s good and right, boldly and loudly.
    Our forefathers did it, now it’s up to us.

    I’d like to hear others thoughts on your questions.

  2. Old but not Stupid Says:

    Burl Ives, that lovely old guy, had an even lovelier song in the early sixties [I am old enough to remember, see] in which he sings: ‘’I’ve said it before, and I’m saying again … so I will do that.

    I have said it before that Communist Economics failed because it ended up the exact opposite of what Karl Marx had intended it to be. The Ruling gangsters did redistribute the wealth, they sure did, but by taking from the poor to enrich themselves.

    You know what this stimulus [bail-out] package will achieve? Failed communism, or communism in reverse, call it whatever you like. The government will be taking more money from the taxpayer to stimulate the wealth of the rich who have stolen/robbed the poor into the mess we have.

    I had to laugh at the article on Rhambo in the February 2nd Edition [a commemorative issue they called it] where they give his background including a quick short stint in investment banking after his job with Slick Willie and they mention in passing that the Rhambo had made himself a quick eighteen million in just two years during that time. You will recall Hillary turned one thousand into one hundred thousand ‘’in a rather short space of time’’ [her own words] acting on a tip from a friend shortly after. That is why the financial world is in a mess and that is where this stimulus money is going. Mister Taxpayer parts with real hard earned dollars to end up with more worthless Photostat money.

    I am waiting for the Time Rag to publish their November 2012 Edition.

  3. Michael Eden Says:

    Communism is a failed economic system because it does not take into account the problem of sin. It doesn’t understand that people are flawed and selfish. So they demonize the rich as evil, but regard the proletariat as wonderful and hard-working.

    The problem is that if productivity is not rewarded by allowing the worker to keep his profits, no one will work hard. When East Germany first entered the West, East German laborers would count out their tally of work (based on number of workers) do their share and no more, and then sit down. There had never been any incentive for them to work harder or do more.

    The problem with socialism is exactly the same. Production is something to be demagogued and attacked, not pursued. If I work hard and become rich, I must be a bad person and I owe it to all the people sitting on their asses in front of the television to give them my profits.

    Corruption is endemic to these systems because liberals are elitists who think they are better than everyone else. So they take more. They are also, of course, hypocrites who can’t live up to their own standards again and again.

  4. Michael Eden Says:

    Your list:

    How do we fight?

    What do we do?

    I’ve been thinking about those questions since reading them.
    Here are a few thoughts.
    We pray, pray, pray as NoBama Repub stated and ask for wisdom in waging this war.
    We stay in the truth, educate and inform every opportunity we get.
    We support those who are on the front lines when they fight for conservative principles.
    We take care of ourselves and our families and prepare for difficult times.
    We don’t give up or give in to those who lie, pretend and deceive. We resist those who want to put us, our children and grandchildren into servitude, change this country and take away our freedoms.
    We pray, stand, resist with truth and fight for what’s good and right, boldly and loudly.
    Our forefathers did it, now it’s up to us.

    I’d like to hear others thoughts on your questions.

    I think it is a very good list. And in the past if we did what was on your list, our goals would win the day and our leaders would be in charge.

    But I wonder (maybe despair?) that we have reached a tipping point. The media presents propaganda, our culture is so dumbed-down that reason is practically mocked, and late night comics have more influence than intellectuals, and apathy rules the day.

    On my view, we may be to the point where the only way to win is a) to be as vile and fight as dirty as our opponents (if they practice total war on us and kill our civilian populations, we do the same to them; if they nuke us, we nuke them back worse, etc.); or b) to have a terrorist attack or a true economic collapse that people finally come to blame the party that is leading us now.

    The problem with both approaches is that TRUE conservative ideas won’t win, and certainly evangelical conservative ideas won’t win. If we’re hit by terrorist attack again, the country will swing to the right. But it won’t be a TRUE turn. Rather, it will just be the same sort of emotional reaction that caused us to turn to the left. There won’t be a fundamental change in values.

    As an evangelical Christians who takes the Bible seriously, I truly believe in the last days, and the coming of an antichrist whom the whole world will worship. He won’t come in a time of prosperity and peace, but in a time of crisis. And I see that crisis coming soon. In other words, I am coming to believe that while I should stand up as a Christian for what’s right, it is nonetheless a losing battle. We’ve reached the point where we can’t cure the cancer that is eating our society alive. Only the 2nd coming of Christ to rule and reign on earth can do that.

    And I guess, what I’m wondering, is to what extent I should fight – and by what tactics – against political liberalism, given that the country will literally go to hell? And, I suppose, given that outcome, your list looks pretty good. It doesn’t include the “burn their houses and salt their fields” tactics that I am wondering about (i.e. the same sort of tactics that Dems used to successfully undermine Republican leadership).

  5. hl Says:

    This is off subject. I received this from a friend yesterday. Have you heard of this? Do you think this administration will attempt to disarm us?
    Here is the official document of the bill.

    http://thomas.loc.gov/( There was a picture of the bill but it did not copy._

    Are you ready for the House Bill titled ‘HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009’. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental amd physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and you any ownership changes even if private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. We the citizenry be as lucky this time?
    Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place. One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a facist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to uprise against them.
    The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society’s life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made they right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a populations right to defend themselves. When this is done the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
    Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment!
    The following is a summary of the bill as provided by the Congressional Research Service. If you read the whole bill, you’ll find it will effectively preclude the ownership of ANY firearms by law-abiding people unless licensed by the Attorney General. How long do you think THAT would take??
    Congressional Research Service Summary
    The following summary was written by the Congressional Research Service, a well-respected nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress. GovTrack did not write and has no control over these summaries.

    1/6/2009–Introduced.

    Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 – Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license under this Act or a state system certified under this Act and such license has not been invalidated or revoked. Prescribes license application, issuance, and renewal requirements.

    Prohibits transferring or receiving a qualifying firearm unless the recipient presents a valid firearms license, the license is verified, and the dealer records a tracking authorization number. Prescribes firearms transfer reporting and record keeping requirements. Directs the Attorney General to establish and maintain a federal record of sale system.

    Prohibits: (1) transferring a firearm to any person other than a licensee, unless the transfer is processed through a licensed dealer in accordance with national instant criminal background check system requirements, with exceptions; (2) a licensed manufacturer or dealer from failing to comply with reporting and record keeping requirements of this Act; (3) failing to report the loss or theft of the firearm to the Attorney General within 72 hours; (4) failing to report to the Attorney General an address change within 60 days; or (5) keeping a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, knowingly or recklessly disregarding the risk that a child is capable of gaining access, if a child uses the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury.

    Prescribes criminal penalties for violations of firearms provisions covered by this Act.

    Directs the Attorney General to: (1) establish and maintain a firearm injury information clearinghouse; (2) conduct continuing studies and investigations of firearm-related deaths and injuries; and (3) collect and maintain current production and sales figures of each licensed manufacturer.

    Authorizes the Attorney General to certify state firearm licensing or record of sale systems.

  6. Michael Eden Says:

    I’m hearing a lot of scary things on the removal of our right to keep and bear arms by the death of a thousand (actually, far fewer will be needed) bureaucratic procedural cuts.

    One of the bills I KNOW is truly out there was presented on Fox News last night: it requires placing an identifying number on every single bullet – which would result in ammunition becoming so expensive that guns will essentially be taken away. If you make the ammunition expensive beyond belief, the poor won’t be able to own a gun – only the rich would still have the right.

    Of course, in the same vein, liberals are trying to make it so that only the rich can afford to buy a car. By the time they get through with it, cars will be priced out of the range of average people, as will the “alternative” fuel needed to drive it.

    It is “government as God.” Government as Savior. Your home is NOT your castle; the government permits you to live there unless THEY want it, and then they take it from you. And you DON’T have the right or freedom to protect your property. You must trust in your “god” to do that for you (even though many neighborhoods have 5-15 minute wait times to even be able to get THROUGH to a 911 operator).

  7. hl Says:

    I’ve been thinking about the dilemma you mentioned of being a Christian whose citizenship is in heaven, your understanding of what the Bible says about end-times and the worldwide events we find ouselves living through at present. The dilemma being, if this is “IT” and were hurling toward “everything going to hell”, what is your responsibility as an American to stand and resist the forces that are in power?

    I think there have been crisis’ in history and signs the Word tells us about, which I believe as truth, that have caused believers in ages past to think, “This is IT, the end is imminent.” They were looking for His appearing, endeavoring to interpret the signs and yet they were not in the end of the end times.

    I hope I am making sense.

    Is is possible that corrupt men and corrupt ideologies and policies have come together and we are reaping the consequences of evil and corruption? That the Lord could be using all this to purify us and strengthen us to fight with truth for what is right spiritually and for our country? That He may in His judgment, have mercy and help us return to right laws and policies more in line with our Constitution?

    I hope I am making sense, these thoughts and questions have been in my mind and I’m trying to sort through them.

    .

  8. Michael Eden Says:

    Oh, yeah, you are, HL. And I agree with you. I believe we’re in the last (by which I mean, “Not far from the Tribulation”) days. But I don’t KNOW it. And on this, my belief may be wrong.

    Still, if you have a firm sense of something, I think you should be guided by it, rather than put your convictions aside and act with agnosticism (and I mean in terms of the last days rather than overall belief in God).

    Let me provide my own example:
    I had never “blogged” before, and really had no interest in doing so. But then this Obama guy began to build steam, and I started learning about him. I was convinced BEFORE the Democratic primaries resolved that if this guy won, he would be such a disaster that it would take the Antichrist to come riding in to save the day (I can’t take the space to explain my full reasoning process, but that was what I thought). So, in other words, I got into blogging, and started this whole site, as a result of that thought process. It was the Jeremiah Wright revelations that were the “last straw” for me.

    In any event, that’s my thought process. And until I see something that really UNDERMINES that thinking, I’m moving forward with it: Get ready. We’re in the very last days. Get your heart right with God. “The end is coming!”

    So we come to your final paragraphs:
    “That the Lord could be using all this to purify us and strengthen us to fight with truth for what is right spiritually and for our country? That He may in His judgment, have mercy and help us return to right laws and policies more in line with our Constitution?”

    Now, these are good thoughts. But there are a lot of godly missionaries who don’t trouble themselves over this in their dedication to spreading the Word of God and message of salvation. Do you see the entirely different emphasis in thinking? I don’t think we can criticize that missionary; the question is, can that missionary criticize ME and those like me who are fighting the battle we’re fighting (for America)? That thought occurs to me.

    The second thing that I see is the issue of tactics. We need to wage a brutal war if we’re going to actually win. We’ve got too much against us. And when you’re fighting the giant, saying, “I won’t stoop to any but the most honorable of tactics” will very likely get you beaten. We’re in a poisoned culture. We’re becoming an increasingly bad people. And “honorable” doesn’t really factor in to most people any longer. So the question is, just how far should we be willing to go to win this war?

  9. hl Says:

    Michael you wrote:
    Do you see the entirely different emphasis in thinking?
    I absolutely do and that has been part of my conflict and the need to sort and sift through this subject.
    I have come across Christians who do not believe we should fight for our country, that we should just spead the Gospel, etc, and I have questioned if I was WRONG because I believed and felt so differently. There are those who do think we are wrong and are criticizing us. Yet, I have thought, what if our Founding Fathers and the Christians who first colonized America shared that conviction? America as we know it would not exist.
    I think there needs to be a respect of the Body of Christ. The Lord puts different desires in us for His purposes. An example is Wilber Wilberforce in England and how he served the Lord and His purposes by engaging in Politics and fighting for the end of slavery. Another is Rush Limbaugh. Right now, he is using the talent and passion given to him, I think by the Lord, operating out of the convictions within him to lead and fight to save America. I think he is doing the Lord’s work.
    Tactics??? How far should we go to be willing to win this war???
    I ponder those things. I honestly see how there could be another civil war so to speak if this administration tries to disarm us to control us. Or if they manipulate food and necessities to subjugate us.
    These thoughts may seem extreme but I would not put it past them with what I am seeing the first 10 days of this administration.
    You wrote:
    “Still, if you have a firm sense of something, I think you should be guided by it, rather than put your convictions aside and act with agnosticism (and I mean in terms of the last days rather than overall belief in God).”
    Yes, think this is where I am at, figuring out what more I am to be doing.
    God Bless and thanks.

    like what is IN ME. I mean that, there is a love and patriotism for this country, our system of government, our unique history that is real, strong and believes it is all worth fighting for.

    I don’t think we can criticize that missionary; the question is, can that missionary criticize ME and those like me who are fighting the battle we’re fighting (for America)? That thought occurs to me.

  10. Michael Eden Says:

    HL,
    I guess what it comes down to is that liberals are SO vicious, and there are lengths to which conservatives just won’t go. As an example, the Anti-Prop 8 bunch who are going out and targeting Prop 8 supporters (donors) with vandalism, death threats, boycotts, and harassment. It actually works: how many of those donors won’t donate to the NEXT war the gay activists start to redefine marriage? But would YOU do stuff like that?

    So I see this dilemma: we can either be as mean and vicious and hateful and deceitful as the Democrats, or we will likely lose. As Americans’ values deteriorate, liberals’ vicious strategies become more successful. But I’m not willing to go as far as they. The question is, how far SHOULD we go?

  11. hl Says:

    How far should we go?
    I don’t know. We should not violate our conscience before the Lord. We need wisdom, strategy and help from above.

  12. Ole Grandpaw Says:

    I am enjoying the ‘’conversation’’ that you have on the go with HL.

    You ask ’’how far SHOULD we go’’? Well, how far did Moses and those after him go? How far did our Lord Jesus go with the [in modern terminology] crooks and thieves in the Temple?

    That will get thousands of Liberals screaming that the times have changed. Yes, I would agree that the times have changed, but so has the Liberal mind from what was originally well intended. Liberalism is not being kind to your fellow man as was originally intended. It changed to become synonymous with anarchy in politics.

    And you mention Prop 8. Believe it or not I was a Carter man in 1976 and stayed with him through his whole term, for the one main reason that he had openly campaigned as a Christian. I admired him for that. But I wonder how he lives with his conscience today, ever since he endorsed Obama. How does a Christian Liberal reconcile the god-given right to live with abortion as advocated by Obama, and how does he reconcile the ‘’old’’ [that’s what the Liberal will call it though it’s still fine with me], well, the old concept of marriage between a man and a woman in love with this abomination they call ‘’gay marriages? I can’t figure that and I can’t figure how former President Carter remains quiet on these issues.

    So the answer to how far we should go becomes pretty clear to me: as far as we have to, [and it is indeed our duty] to protect what is dear to us and in accordance with our beliefs in the OLD BIBLE. I am putting that in upper case not because I believe in any manner in any difference between ‘’old or new Bibles’’ but merely to emphasize/underline and shouting at the top of my voice, let the Liberal accuse me of screaming out loud in the public, yes let him, but I have put that in the upper case to say: Whet gives you guys the right to say I have to interpret the Bible in some new way you want me to do. Go away with you, I want to scream, get out of the Temple.

    And while I am now in a screaming mood, when are we [We, the people] going to insist that the current bunch of ‘’Temple Moneylenders’’ [salesmen of junk bonds, derivatives, mortgage packages you name it [when are we going to demand that they go they go to endurance vile for their deeds?

    I apologize, but Obama makes me heave like that.

    Thursday, January 29, 2009 at 8:46 PM

    Old but not Stupid Says:
    January 29, 2009 at 11:46 am

    Old but not Stupid

    Burl Ives, that lovely old guy, had an even lovelier song in the early sixties [I am old enough to remember, see] in which he sings: ‘’I’ve said it before, and I’m saying again … so I will do that.

    I have said it before that Communist Economics failed because it ended up the exact opposite of what Karl Marx had intended it to be. The Ruling gangsters did redistribute the wealth, they sure did, but by taking from the poor to enrich themselves.

    You know what this stimulus [bail-out] package will achieve? Failed communism, or communism in reverse, call it whatever you like. The government will be taking more money from the taxpayer to stimulate the wealth of the rich who have stolen/robbed the poor into the mess we have.

    I had to laugh at the article on Rhambo in the February 2nd Edition [a commemorative issue they called it] where they give his background including a quick short stint in investment banking after his job with Slick Willie and they mention in passing that the Rhambo had made himself a quick eighteen million in just two years during that time. You will recall Hillary turned one thousand into one hundred thousand ‘’in a rather short space of time’’ [her own words] acting on a tip from a friend shortly after. That is why the financial world is in a mess and that is where this stimulus money is going. Mister Taxpayer parts with real hard earned dollars to end up with more worthless Photostat money.

    I am waiting for the Time Rag to publish their November 2012 Edition.

  13. Michael Eden Says:

    HL,
    I certainly do pray and believe in prayer. But I confess that I too often forget to ask for God’s mind when I write articles or respond to comments. Your comment is an exhortation for me to pursue the Lord’s leading as I’m writing.

    It’s ALWAYS been too easy to fall prey to using the tactics of the world to ostensibly advance God’s agenda. We can obviously go back to the Crusades and the Inquisition and see that even genuine Christians thought they were doing good while in reality they were doing evil (and I would also argue that most of the bloody deeds done were done by evil men who used Christianity as a front for their own evil agendas).

    But I have often realized that there was a line beyond which I should not go. And I have wondered if I crossed it. In fact, I confess, I’m sure I’ve already crossed it in the past. The closer you get to “the line,” the blurrier and harder it is to see.

    But we’re at a point where that likely means we lose. Let me give an example from history. During the rise of Hitler, Hitler recognized no limits to his tactics. He used his SA as brawlers to spoil other party’s rallies. He used arson to burn down key sites and blamed his opposition for the acts. And the culture had become so completely depraved that the German people couldn’t judge evil. And so virtually every cheap, vicious tactic paid off for him.

    And it has become clear to me that that is where our culture is today. Bad tactics work because we’ve become a bad people. Bad people believe lies. They don’t see evil for what it is. And liberals have capitalized on this cultural decline.

    Are we willing to do the same, if that’s what it takes to win? It’s been a real issue for me. It’s part wisdom, and part will. How far should we go, and which tactics should we use is a matter of wisdom. Being willing to lose rather than go as far as our enemies is a matter of will. And I for one need to pray for godly wisdom AND godly will.

  14. Michael Eden Says:

    The thing that most leaped out from your comment in my mind occurred right at the beginning: the liberal abandonment of tolerance in the name of tolerance.

    I would agree with you that liberalism originally truly represented a yearning to embrace the positive side of “tolerance,” “compassion for others,” and “understanding.” But that was decades ago, and few liberals indeed today are “liberals” in the sense of “Kennedy liberals” (for example). Today, we have an abandonment of those things in the very name of those things.

    These people represent themselves as “tolerant,” but they are the most intolerant of all. They use tolerance as a weapon to attack their opponents, in a clear perversion of the spirit of genuine tolerance. I call it the passive-aggressive tyranny trip. And I see it all the time.

    I think that the liberals of the 40s and 50s had a legitimate point. But recognize that the liberals of those days didn’t separate themselves from God, but sought to follow him. Now they spit on God and the Bible as quintessential examples of “intolerance.”

    But without the objective values that come from God and without the transcendent Imago Dei that results from viewing God as Creator and Sustainer, tolerance is impossible. If we disagree with our opponents, the only recourse is the law of the jungle. Destroy them by any means necessary.

    And that’s why tolerance has become so warped with liberals.

  15. hl Says:

    “Tolerance is a CRIME when applies to evil.” Thomas Mann
    I read this quote this week and loved it for it’s clarity.
    I appreciate your comments, Ole Grandpaw, they make a lot of sense to me!
    Michael, I think your point about us having degenerated to a lower level of “badness” as a society is a good one.
    Some Liberals, a lot of the time wage war like dirty street fighters and we are restrained.
    I think there must be a place to do whatever is necessary to overcome evil people with evil intentions……..I just don’t know how this will play out in this country.
    Praying for godly wisdom and will……..Amen!

  16. hl Says:

    Correction: “Tolerance is a crime when applied to evil.” Thomas Mann

  17. Michael Eden Says:

    This one by Robert Heinlein isn’t quite as pithy, but it gets at something:

    “Anyone who clings to the historically untrue – and thoroughly immoral – doctrine that ‘violence never settles anything’ I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and of the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler could referee, and the jury might well be the Dodo, the Great Auk, and the Passenger Pigeon. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedom.”

    When confronted by evil, the choice is simple: be willing to stand up and fight or lay down and die.

    In the course of internal politics, societies have too often degenerated to the point that only a civil war could win the day for the “forces of good.” Bad people don’t WANT good; that’s a big part of why they’re bad people. They reject it. And we’re getting closer and closer – if not already too late now – to that tipping point.

    Can conservatives be honorable and dignified and win when liberals pull out all stops and recognize no moral limit? Can conservatives win when the left – as awful as they are – are routinely portrayed as “victims” of some “right wing attack machine” when THEY’RE the ones attacking ruthlessly? I think that there’s a very real possibility that we can’t.

    But does that mean we should use the same tactics?

    It’s a hard thing, watching your society and culture circling the drain.

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