Mexico Says Their Citizens Returning Home Are A Burden: How Were They Not A Burden To America?

This is too damn funny…

As reported by the Tucson Citizen:

by Jim Kelley on Jun.01, 2010
Mexico feeling the impact of Exodus of Illegal Aliens from US

El Imparcial (Hermosillo, Sonora) 5/29/10
Sonora foresees Mexican invasion
[Column by  Victor Mendoza Lambert ]

It’s a fact, the SB 1070 law will be a true nightmare for Sonora.  To the Sonoran immigrants who will return for obvious reasons, we must add the thousands and thousands of Mexicans who  will cross the border daily to enter our country to avoid being jailed.  I hope that the Federation and the State foresee this, because cities like Nogales are already suffering.

The problem is not that they cross for a few days; the problem is that they stay; the problem is the unemployment that we have and that we see mounting in that area; the problem is the violence and the risk that many of those unemployed and desperate Mexicans will join the ranks of organized crime which, as we well know, has taken a liking to Nogales.  From this arises the urgency of a true strategy in which the Federation might contemplate helping all those people so that they return to their places of origin and avoid this nightmare in the border areas of Sonora.

The Arizona authorities in the past few days have toughened their campaign to find and deport undocumenteds.  In Nogales, there are days when up to 1,200 men and women are deported and the disputed law has not yet even been applied.  Can one imagine when that happens? This means it is urgent that the concerns become actions and for the implementation of a regulated plan.

Then, how it appears, neither the “lovely” speeches by Felipe Calderon nor the good intentions of Barack Obama will be able to counteract this enormous problem.  Unemployment is the darkest shadow our country will have in the coming months and Sonora will suffer before the others.  Because of this, Guillermo Padres [Governor of Sonora] will have much work to do in Mexico City; he has to knock on many doors to avoid our border from becoming an uninhabitable zone.  There is not the slightest doubt that Sonora will be one of the most vulnerable states.  If living in Nogales is a risk now, just imagine what it will be with thousands of Mexicans who, day after day, return …   It goes without saying, our state finds itself between a rock and a hard place, or better said, between a rock and the border.

[End El Imparcial article]

It appears that Mexico is starting to feel the impact of years of illegal aliens entering the United States. As more and more Mexicans who have entered the US illegally are self deporting or being deported by Immigration and Customs Enforcement, they themselves are wondering what they are going to do when their citizens return. The assumptions that the writer makes about the illegals that may return is striking. ” The problem is not that they cross for a few days; the problem is that they stay…” […]

Thus Mexico begins to see a huge burden when their citizens return to their own country.  And the obvious question comes to mind: “And how were these same Mexican citizens not a burden on the United States when they were illegally living in OUR country?”

The myth that these illegal immigrants were a “boon” to America is finally permanently put to rest.

The DemocRAT Party has been assuring us that Mexican illegal immigrants aren’t a “nightmare” or a “burden.”  Oh, no.  They have been little blessed darlings and all they do is make America more wonderfuller than ever.  They don’t swamp our social support system; they don’t overwhelm our schools and our emergency rooms; they don’t take jobs that poor Americans WOULD be willing to do if the wages hadn’t been artificially depressed by illegal immigrants who in many cases live 20 to a house.  And, of COURSE illegal immigrants aren’t involved in anything like those nasty criminal gangs.

Except they ARE members of nasty criminal gangs.  See hereAnd hereAnd here.  Here’s a bullet point from a Center for Immigration Studies article:

25-50% of all gangsters arrested in northern and western Virginia are estimated to be deportable aliens. Gang investigators estimate that 90% of the members of MS-13, the most notorious immigrant gang, are illegal aliens.

And that’s not in Arizona, where the problem is huge.  It’s in Virginia!!!

And, of course, they ARE draining our nation, one-by-one, thousand-by-thousand, million-by-million.

Rep. Lamar Smith points out the following:

When it comes to taxes, amnesty supporters like to say that illegal immigrants will pay their “fair share” of taxes after being granted amnesty.  This is deceptive.

Low-skilled workers often pay no taxes and receive a check from the Internal Revenue Service in the form of the Earned Income Tax Credit.  Putting illegal immigrants on the IRS rolls will actually cost the federal government money.

Since most illegal immigrants have less than a high school education and have well below average incomes, even those illegal immigrants who pay taxes pay far less in taxes than they (and their families) consume in taxpayer-supported benefits.  Robert Rector of the Heritage Foundation found that the average immigrant household headed by an immigrant without a high school degree receives over $19,000 more in total government benefits each year than it pays in federal, state and local taxes!

So with every illegal immigrant entering the country, you can hear the cash register: “Ka-ching!  Ka-ching!  Ka-ching!”  $19,000.  Another $19,000.  Another $19,000.  And so on, and so on, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Well, they’ve been a burden here for years.  And now when those same illegal immigrants return home to their own country, the very same people who burdened our system are now burdening Mexico’s system.

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26 Responses to “Mexico Says Their Citizens Returning Home Are A Burden: How Were They Not A Burden To America?”

  1. HL Says:

    It’s about time Mexico ‘feels the burden’ we’re sick and tired of it.

  2. Michael Eden Says:

    I don’t blame the Mexican people who want to come here and get out of their hellhole by any means possible.

    And as bad as the Mexican government is about illegal immigration, I actually blame our government more – because they’re coming HERE, and WE could stop them.

    But it certainly does prove that these people are in fact a burden on America when they are a burden to their own country.

  3. Wanda Says:

    I wasn’t even aware of the problem with our Southern border until the towers got hit. I began to research illegal immigrants and it was then I discovered the border problems with Mexico that nobody talked about.
    Since then I have been an activist to secure the border and get the illegals out. That was in 2001.

    In the 9 years I have watched this issue I think I am angrier at the ones who did well over here than the poor migrants. You can read daily about wonderful families who have been good citizens now looking at deportation. We read about honor students and college graduates all the time. We read about people most of the time saying they had planned on going back. My question is “WHAT IF” these people who came and settled in had gone back with their wonderful family values. They are traitors to Mexico and the trouble with Mexico is because they abandoned their country.

    What if all of these morally upright, responsible indiviuals screaming about the Dream Act had to go home. Couldn’t that dream become to change Mexcio. Cpu;dn’t they build a business in Mexico, buy a home. elect honest leaders, make Mexico a place to be proud of. Mexico needs them.

  4. Michael Eden Says:

    You make an excellent point, Wanda. I’ll make it in slightly different terms.

    Mexico is a hellhole. It has been a hellhole for at least a generation. There is absolutely no effort to change Mexico from a hellhole.

    Why?

    Because the people who WOULD demand change in Mexico are leaving Mexico and coming here. Illegal immigration becomes a political relief valve which maintains the status quo in Mexico. And Mexico will continue to remain a hellhole until illegal immigration to the USA is shut down and the Mexican people are forced to improve their country rather than coming to ours and mooching off of our system.

    And as for the liberals who are calling us “racists” for opposing illegal immigration, I would therefore say this:

    Why are you so racist that you would keep a country in perpetual chaos just so you can have low-priced unskilled labor???

  5. James McPherson Says:

    The bill will probably cost the state millions of dollars even aside from the boycotts and lawsuits it prompts. Those who benefit from the law will include tourism-related businesses in other states, Democratic candidates and perhaps Big Oil, gay couples and drug dealers. I’m sure those are exactly the folks Arizona legislators most wanted to help out.
    Of course if anyone was really serious about keeping out undocumented workers, the easiest and cheapest solution would be to levy heavy fines and perhaps jail time against those who hire them. But many of those businesses also contribute heavily to political campaigns, so such a law is unlikely to pass.

  6. Michael Eden Says:

    Rather amazing, James.

    Polls show that Arizonans support the law to the tune of 71%.

    Yet you seem to demonize the motives of the legislators who passed the law as being in the pocket of sinister forces. It’s impossible that they did the right thing, as approved of by an overwhelming majority of the state population.

    And your argument that this will cost the state means what? If a bunch of people sued you for not killing your mother, would argue that you should kill your mother to avoid a lawsuit? Your argument amounts to moral relativism, and philosophical pragmatism.

    Further, yes, the costs you cite are real. But Arizona will also save a ton of money by having all of these illegals who gobble up state benefits suddenly vanish. They are now moving in droves to California; so we’ll see if having tens of thousands of illegal immigrants gobbling up social benefits helps them out.

    I agree with you re: businesses hiring illegals. We can and should make it more difficult for businesses to use illegal immigrant labor, and really hurt them if they’re caught doing it. But we also need to secure our borders, and actively work to deport illegals whom we catch under reasonable law enforcement (such as this law provides).

  7. Wanda Says:

    Michael did you read they were moving in droves to California? I keep waiting to hear about a great exodus. I hear about individual cases but nothing that would fit the wave of expatroits that should be returning now. Seems so many want to lay low and wait and see.
    Maybe they have been promised something if they wait..

    I’m so jaded when it comes to the dishonesty of politicians. I wonder who is real and who is going to stab us in the back once they are elected. I wonder what is going on with the NRA to back McCain?
    I like Duncan Hunter, love Tancredo and trust McCain/Palin as far as I can throw them..just my opinion.

    Well, maybe I can get so sleep. I’ve been up with a sick little puppy but I think she has settled in for the night now.

    Nite Guys

  8. Michael Eden Says:

    Wanda,
    I hope your puppy gets well quickly. I just adopted a puppy from the animal shelter; will get her Wednesday.

    I’ve not only seen evidence that illegal immigrants are coming to California, but I’ve also seen evidence that they are going back to Mexico rather than risk being deported – and that they are already a big burden in Mexico.

    “Jaded” is a sad but legitimate attitude toward politicians – even many Republicans. We desperately need term limits for both Congress and the Supreme Court. We need to get the unions out of government service (why the hell do government employees need to organize anyway?). We need to end the ability of the political class to advance political patronage, which the Obama administration’s attempts to bribe Sestak and Romanoff exemplify.

    I like Sarah Palin, but I join you in not trusting John McCain. I don’t want “mavericks; I just want consistent conservatives who espouse a set of principles and values, and then live up to those values and principles.

    Hope you and your puppy sleep well!

  9. James McPherson Says:

    “You seem to demonize the motives of the legislators who passed the law as being in the pocket of sinister forces. It’s impossible that they did the right thing, as approved of by an overwhelming majority of the state population.”
    Not necessarily “sinister forces” beyond laziness or cowardice, though I suspect individual motives vary widedly. Remember, a vast majority of Americans once thought the Iraq War was a good idea, and a majority now think it was a mistake, just once example of why Alexis de Tocqueville warned about what he called “the tyranny of the majority.”
    We should elect legislators not to do exactly what we want at all times–because we’re in no position to be experts about everything, and what we “want” shifts rapidly–but to do what we need.
    And again, attacking the problem though employers would likely be much more effective and cheaper, but probably won’t be tried–which is where what might be termed “sinister forces” actually do come into play.
    “Arizona will also save a ton of money by having all of these illegals who gobble up state benefits suddenly vanish.”
    Evidence suggests that the state will lose a ton more than it will save, but you bring up an interesting point that I might have expressed more fully previously (judging by your statement about my supposed “moral relativism”). Many conservatives keep making the economic argument by appealing to concerns about “illegals who gobble up state benefits” without considering the other side of the equation–the taxes those people pay, the services they provide (far too cheaply), etc. I’m not saying there aren’t good reasons to oppose illegal immigration, but anyone making an economic argument should consider both sides of the ledger. Thanks.

  10. Wanda Says:

    If you could wave a magic wand and make one of these happen:

    Would you rather your puppy be able to talk to you or see in color?

    THis has been the topic of a friendly feud with my husband for a long time. Anyway, enjoy your baby. I hope she never gets sick but shoot me an email if she does (I’m learning a lot about it).

    I always said “see in color.” Now, I may have to give in and tell my husband he’s right because I just wish this baby could talk to me.

    As far as politicians, wouldn’t it be cool to have one we didn’t have to keep an eye on. Isn’t that how it is suppose to work..they go to Washington knowing and voting for the reasons they were elected.
    We should be allowed to lead normal lives.

    This talk about “what we should do to close the border” is really stupid.
    A 10 year old could figure that out. The question is “who is paying off who and who can be bought.”

    To be perfectly honest, I don’t get the goosebumps anymore when they play the national anthem. I don’t feel the sense of belonging I once felt altho I have ancestors listed on the very first Federal census recorded. I don’t feel the pride I once felt altho I’ve had family members fighting in every War for this country. My Amercia has turned into some big Business venture. It’s hard to get passionate about it when you feel it’s so out of your control.

  11. Michael Eden Says:

    You begin by saying,

    Remember, a vast majority of Americans once thought the Iraq War was a good idea

    You know what’s so funny about that? That the very Democrats who so demonized the war that they had been for (also see here and here) until they turned against America in the middle of fighting it are now all of a sudden taking credit for the great success of that very same war they so despicably turned against.

    From the LA Times discussing this little gem from VP Joe Biden:

    I am very optimistic about — about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You’re going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You’re going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government.

    I spent — I’ve been there 17 times now. I go about every two months — three months. I know every one of the major players in all the segments of that society. It’s impressed me. I’ve been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences.

    Democrats were FOR that war when it politically suited their partisan agenda; then they were AGAINST it when it suited their partisan agenda. And now suddenly they’re FOR it again now that it suits their partisan agenda.

    Maybe Iraq isn’t the best example for you.

    I would submit that America’s initial response to both Iraq and to Arizona was spot on. But malicious little craven weasels just keep poisoning the well, and backbiting, and lying, and undermining, and doing everything they could to demonize and demagogue and fearmonger and blame until the America people turned on what they had once knew was right.

    That’s maybe another thing we don’t want our politicians to do. But they do it anyway.

    As to your last point about all the taxes illegal immigrants pay, etc., you never answer the question why Mexican citizens are recognized to be such a burden to their own country, but they are just so wonderful here. You also need to explain that, if having millions of illegal immigrants is actually such a good thing, then why does Mexico have such stringent and hard-core laws of its own to keep out illegal immigrants on THEIR southern border????

    Why is it that they so obviously don’t believe their own garbage claims???

    You also don’t bother to address the fact that “the Heritage Foundation found that the average immigrant household headed by an immigrant without a high school degree receives over $19,000 more in total government benefits each year than it pays in federal, state and local taxes.”

    What the study found is that, overwhelmingly, illegal immigrants are poor, unskilled people. They simply are not earning very much. Many are paid under the table, and pay NO taxes. And those who are filing under false Social Security numbers are not earning anywhere NEAR enough to compensate for what they take out. The trivial FICA contributions don’t begin to make up for their drain on social resources. To the tune of an average cost of $19,000 imposed on the American economy and taxpayers for each and every illegal immigrant.

    The funniest thing of all is this: the Mexican government, and the Mexican consulates, have for years been helping Mexicans enter the US illegally, remain undetected, and consume American social support benefits. And, essentially, your argument would lead to the conclusion that in doing all that, Mexico is actually more American than Americans. Because in guiding illegal immigrants into America (even though they are HARD CORE about keeping illegal immigrants out of THEIR country), in providing fake documents to illegal Mexican immigrants so they can avoid detection, in teaching/training them how to consume our welfare benefits, they are doing the most to make America better.

    It further amounts to the implicit claim that America needs more ignorant, uneducated, menial-labor class people. And the more we have of such people, the better off we are. And who really needs crap like a common language or a common culture, anyway? The more fractured and the more fragmented America is, the better, too.

    Don’t buy it.

  12. Michael Eden Says:

    Wanda, I’ll hold you to that “sick puppy” thing.

    Looking very forward to the pitter-patter of little puppy peet.

    I suppose I would say, “See in color,” simply because I’m convince that dogs are ALREADY talking to us. I might be anthropomorphizing, but I am usually pretty certain I know what my dog would tell me when I need to hear a good word from someone.

    The founding fathers’ writings contain numerous admonitions that we have ALWAYS and CONSTANTLY needed to keep an eye on our politicians. I think they would argue that that actually should be part of the normal life of every patriot.

    But I know what you’re saying. It sucks having so many documented weasels running every aspect of our lives.

    I like the “ten year old could figure that out” thing. And lets not forget the above-average six year olds, either.

    I also know where you’re coming from regarding your last paragraph.

    For me, it’s anger, and a sense of loss. When Americans voted for Obama, they demonstrated how truly far they had fallen, in so pathetically voting for a craven partisan socialist demagogue who made promise after promise that he never had any intention of fulfilling. How could we have fallen so far?

    Now, someone might point back to FDR. But here’s an interesting thing. Americans had become pathetic leading up to FDR. They became great in rising up against the greatest evils the world had ever seen – and then defeating those evils through sheer force of national will.

    It’s interesting that “the Greatest Generation” immediately passed the 22nd Amendment preventing another FDR from ever dominating their lives again the moment he died. The Greatest Generation never wanted another FDR.

    But what may be the WORST Generation voted for one who would be even worse if we gave him half a chance.

    I realize that there truly are “two Americas,” the leftist socialist one having always been present in our midst, like a snake ready to strike. The other, better Americans, the ones who want the America our founding fathers established, have to work to overcome and impose the founding fathers’ America. Just as the socialist OTHER “Americans” have worked to impose their Marxist America.

    There’s YET a lot to be proud of. But we have to fight if we want to keep what’s left of it.

  13. James McPherson Says:

    “Democrats were FOR that war when it politically suited their partisan agenda; then they were AGAINST it when it suited their partisan agenda. And now suddenly they’re FOR it again now that it suits their partisan agenda.
    “Maybe Iraq isn’t the best example for you.”
    Actually Michael, that’s why it’s a good example. Most Democrats, and most other Americans, were for it and then against it–that’s exactly the point I was making: that people change their minds without basing the changes on rational information.
    On the other hand, not all Democrats or all Republicans were for the war–one of the relatively few things I agree with Pat Buchanan about is our consistent opposition to the war since before it began. (In fact I wore a black armband in protest of it all day every day–except in church–from the time the war began until Memorial Day of that year.)
    “You never answer the question why Mexican citizens are recognized to be such a burden to their own country, but they are just so wonderful here.”
    I never made any such argument–but as I keep saying, there is lots of evidence on both sides of the economic scale, and Arizonans against immigration (which isn’t all of them, either–I have family there who oppose the bill) keep only presenting one side. If you care to find the other info, it’s easy to do (you can see links on my most recent blog post if you care, but I suspect you don’t).
    And pardon me, but the Heritage Foundation is the think thank equivalent of Fox News (as odd as it sounds to put “think tank” and Fox in the same sentence).
    “America needs more ignorant, uneducated, menial-labor class people.” Maybe not. But I suspect neither you nor your kids will do the job, at least for that amount of money.
    Which takes us back to my first and most important note–that if legislators really wanted to put a big dent in immigration they could do so easily by fining and jailing the employers. But they lack the guts do that.
    “When Americans voted for Obama, they demonstrated how truly far they had fallen, in so pathetically voting for a craven partisan socialist demagogue who made promise after promise that he never had any intention of fulfilling.”
    And to think, up until now you’ve seemingly been arguing that the people–such as those who favored the immigration bill and the Iraq War at the beginning–were the ones we could trust to make intelligent decisions. And incidentally I’m not an Obama fan, either, though he’s far from a socialist–and in fact is more conservative in many ways than Republicans such as Richard Nixon once were.

  14. Michael Eden Says:

    I’ll have to start with this one:

    And pardon me, but the Heritage Foundation is the think thank equivalent of Fox News (as odd as it sounds to put “think tank” and Fox in the same sentence).

    You do realize that Fox News IS now recognized to be the most trusted name in news, don’t you?

    From Politico:

    Fox is the most trusted television news network in the country, according to a new poll out Tuesday.

    A Public Policy Polling nationwide survey of 1,151 registered voters Jan. 18-19 found that 49 percent of Americans trusted Fox News, 10 percentage points more than any other network.

    Thirty-seven percent said they didn’t trust Fox, also the lowest level of distrust that any of the networks recorded.

    So in demagoguing Fox News to bring down Heritage, you accomplish two things: 1) You demonstrate that you are basically an ideologue, and a rabid partisan, rather than someone who recognizes that Fox News does an awful lot of good work. And 2) Since Fox News IS in actuality the most trusted, in dragging Fox in to tear down Heritage, you basically in fact help demonstrate that Heritage deserves it’s outstanding reputation, also.

    Re: Iraq, what is implicit in your argument is that you assume that if someone is for something, and then later turns against it, the last position is the one that is worthy. Which would make Abraham Lincoln really sad, for instance. He became a very unpopular guy, fighting a war that became VERY unpopular. Had he not been handed a victory at Gettysburg, most historians argue that a) Lincoln would have LOST re-election, and b) that the North would have settled with the South, and the South would either continue to have slavery, or the South would have become the Confederate States of America, and continue to have slavery. So just maybe that first view FOR Lincoln and FOR the war was the better one.

    You also forgot to deal with the fact that the Obama administration now thinks that the Iraq war was such a good thing, that they’re taking credit for the victory (after demonizing Bush for losing a war that we now know that he won).

    I won’t go back into what I argued earlier as to why I believe that doing everything possible to discourage illegal immigration is far and away the best course for the US. Anyone who is interested, please read my previous comment.

    And, again, I state that I am in agreement with you that “fining and jailing the employers” who hire illegals (and fail to take steps to prevent hiring illegals) would be a good thing to do. And I also agree that politicians – Democrat AND Republican – have too often refused to take this step for political reasons. (The Democrats have pandered to the Hispanic vote, and the Republicans are afraid of losing more of it than they already have if they do what is necessary).

    Illegal immigration has produced a huge economic drain. We are bringing in millions of uneducated and unskilled laborers. Our public schools, our prisons, and our emergency rooms are clogged with these people. They transfer at least a billion dollars every year out of our economy and into Mexico’s. We don’t need that. We should be more like Mexico and shut down our southern border to prevent illegal immigration.

    Lastly, let me deal with this:

    Maybe not. But I suspect neither you nor your kids will do the job, at least for that amount of money.

    Most of my family are farmers in Iowa. I can assure you, they’ve been doing “the job” of agriculture for a long time. Not only was there actually a time when genuine white people did agricultural labor, but believe it or not there STILL ARE.

    Would I or my kids do this job for the illegal immigrant wages that take advantage of these people? No, probably not. But if all the illegals who were artificially holding down wages and made purchasing new labor-saving farm equipment unnecessary were out of America, guess what would happen? Wages for farm labor would go up, and Americans would take those jobs. Now, Democrats always talk about higher wages being a good thing. So why would it be a terrible thing if wages went up and unemployment went down?

    What would be so terrible particularly if we timed the school year to the harvests like we used to do, so high school kids could take these jobs and get some practical work experience? Why would that be such a disaster???

    The price of food would go up some, but not a whole lot. And ultimately new equipment would bring the prices back down to maybe being even cheaper than they are now. And Americans would be working, and their wages would be staying here in the US rather than flowing into Mexico.

  15. James McPherson Says:

    “You do realize that Fox News IS now recognized to be the most trusted name in news, don’t you?”
    Yet another example of that problem we’ve been talking about for most of this post.
    “what is implicit in your argument is that you assume that if someone is for something, and then later turns against it, the last position is the one that is worthy…”
    Definitely not an implication I intended. Sometimes the first is right, sometimes the last, sometimes neither.

  16. Michael Eden Says:

    Let’s see. You demonize Fox News in order to demonize the Heritage Foundation. You demonstrate that you are philosophically- and logically ignorant in your determination to pursue the genetic fallacy (aka the fallacy of source or origin, attacking a claim on the basis of its source rather than any lack of merit). I mean, you demonize the Heritage study not by offering a valid argument that it is a bad study, but by dragging in Fox News and alleging that Heritage is just like them – even though Fox is THE most trusted news organization. Given that I provide the link proving that Fox News is the most trusted name in news even according to the left-leaning Public Policy Polling, you can’t deny the FACT that Fox is the most trusted. So what do you then say?

    Yet another example of that problem we’ve been talking about for most of this post.

    Which is the poster child for non-responses.

    I suppose you only trust the LEAST trusted name in news. Perhaps you only trust the New York Times, which has had THREE journalists exposed for plagiarism in the last few years (see here and here)???

    As for the second item you flagged, in point of fact your argument DOES depend on that implication. You are using Iraq as a “proof” that the people first choose “wrongly,” then correct themselves, as your grounds to argue that the overwhelming majority of both Arizonans and the American people in regards to the Arizona immigration law proves nothing. Your argument was entirely null and void from the getgo. First of all, you never even try to demonstrate that Iraq was a “bad war.” Second, you never deal with the counterpoint that Obama and Biden – who demonized the Iraq War – are now literally claiming it as one of the great achievements of their administration (so how bad could it have been?). Third, I point out that your argument flies in the face of Lincoln and why we don’t have slavery today. And fourth, why should anyone believe that one day the American people will turn against the Arizona law?

  17. Wanda Says:

    Mike,

    Just wanted to come back and let you know why I left the thread. The puppy is all better but now we have to plan a trip to Houston to see hospitalized family.

    I hope this finds you with that new puppy and she is the joy that mine are to me. There is a lot of help online if she gets sick and it could save you a car payment (vet bill..lol).

    Take care guys,

    Wanda

  18. Michael Eden Says:

    Wanda,
    Yeah, we got ourselves a PUPPY!

    She looks amazingly like a Rhodesian Ridgeback without the ridge (found out that 20-25% of all Ridgebacks are born without a ridge, which is just the dogs’ coats growing from two different directions at that point). And that’s good, because I’ve always kind of admired Rhodesian Ridgebacks.

    It’s a major fault for the AKC events, but I have never cared about that stuff.

    So far, I think she might be TOO healthy. She runs around like a whirling dervish.

    Glad your puppy is pulling through, hope you have a safe trip to Houston (and back), and may God bless you for visiting the sick!

  19. Chris with Greyhounds Says:

    Mike,

    Just stumbled upon your blog today while googling the Anne Wortham article. You are a Godsend…keep up the right fight.

    What’s interesting is the relative silence on your blog by leftists..but maybe not surprising since their arguments are so easily destroyed by your/our simple yet powerful logic. They try to defend the inane or bash the just but simply flail and fail miserably.

    Great to see you got a RR pup. They are very cool hounds. You should look up an activity called lure coursing. Almost as fun as toying with libs.

  20. Michael Eden Says:

    Thanks for the kind words.

    I feel that liberals’ arguments need to be confronted and dealt with. I would use the word “exposed”: exposed for how wrong and wrongheaded they truly are.

    I’ve got to profoundly disagree with you on your last point, though. That lure coursing looks like a lot of fun, and you get to play with dogs. Toying with libs isn’t nearly so fun, because you have to play with nasty, bitter, angry, deceitful liberals.

    As for my new pup, this little girl is quite the handful. Dang does she ever like to run.

    I’ve had two Rottweiler pups (technically three, counting my girlfriend’s when we each got a pup from the same litter). I remember the two dogs running and running after each other for days while I backpacked with them in the Willamette National Forest years back.

    But I’ve never seen a puppy do so much running just for the sake of running.

  21. James McPherson Says:

    “What’s interesting is the relative silence on your blog by leftists..”
    Chris, at least three clear reasons come to mind:
    First, Michael has every comment “held for moderation,” sometimes for more than a full day, making timely back-and-forth “discussion” impossible.
    Second, though he can be a reasonable sort (admirably including his full name, for example), Michael seems somewhat defensive or ideological, too often resorting to easy kneejerk assumptions about those he perceives to be disagreeing with him, silly blanket statements such as “liberals always lie,” and generally insulting but otherwise meaningless reactive remarks such as “I mean, are you really that tiny-minded???”
    And third, like most of us bloggers Michael has relatively few readers of any political persuasion. Those who want to comment on a controversial issue probably are far more likely to read and respond to a post with more readers. Or maybe someone who owns the same kind of dog. :-)

  22. Michael Eden Says:

    First, I’m no different than anyone else holding comments for moderation. Maybe I wouldn’t have to do so, if 2 out every 3 of my comments from liberals didn’t include so much filthy language and hate. You’ll have to pardon me for not allowing filth to be posted. It’s frankly rather hard for me to imagine you would make an issue of that.

    Suffice it to say this will never be an instant message chat room. Nevertheless, I am willing to give liberals who are willing to be civil their say. And I take particular pleasure in posting liberals’ comments who say, “I know you won’t post this…” because they think they’re really zinging me.

    Second, you label me an “ideologue” because of the way I responded to your naked ideology??? I would challenge anyone to go back and see what prompted my “are you really that tiny-minded” statement. James believed that throwing Sarah Palin into a conversation that was in no way about Sarah Palin was a legitimate way to undermine a statement Bill Kristol said that likewise had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Sarah Palin. While utterly ignoring the content of Bill Kristol’s actual remark. That was indeed a very tiny-minded thing for James to do. I was accurately reflecting on a tactic that was a) fundamentally demagogic and b) logically asinine.

    Coming from a guy who thought he could attack a Heritage study by throwing (again, with no justification) Fox News into the debate – and then saying Heritage is just like Fox News when in fact Fox News is the MOST trusted name in news – I don’t mind being called an ideologue. The man who is calling me an ideologue is the poster boy for the genetic fallacy – which is one of the most fundamental fallacies in debate. Give me idiotic arguments, and don’t be surprised when I call you an idiot.

    As I survey the patent lies on top of patent lies that liberals have spewed over the Arizona immigration law, it truly does seem that the only time a liberal is telling the truth is when he says, “I am lying.” I mean, literally, NOTHING you people are saying about the Arizona law is true.

    The third thing is sadly also untrue. You are certainly correct when you point out that mine is hardly a major trafficked blog. But when you count the comments I am forced to delete from leftists who can’t think apart from the F-bomb, I get more comments from liberals than I do conservatives.

    I wish that weren’t true. I wish I got a LOT more comments from conservatives than liberals. I am not out to “convert” liberals. Frankly, apart from liberals directly and personally experiencing the stupidity of liberal policies (such as a liberal being gunned down by illegal immigrants, and his family members saying, ‘What the hell???’, or such as a liberal who loses his job because of Obama’s tax policies, or loses his employer-based coverage because of ObamaCare), I don’t think liberals are going to be persuaded by even the soundest arguments.

    My intent is and has always been to 1) leave behind a record of the total failure of the Obama presidency; and 2) to provide conservatives with facts and information to counter the constant stream of lies we’re being fed. Which is why my articles always have so many supporting links. I also hope to 3) persuade the persuadable, which largely means independents who are now turning away from Obama and Democrats in droves.

    The subject of “dogs” is one of the very few that I can talk to a liberal and have camaraderie about. As an “ideologue,” I want to demonize all liberals as cat lovers; but I am forced to admit that there are some decent dog lovers even among the ranks of liberals. I can’t talk to a liberal about politics without one of us (usually the liberal) coming unglued. But I have found that I can talk to dog lovers about dogs irrespective of political persuasion.

    P.S. I’m just joking about the cats. I like them, too (just not as much as dogs).

  23. James McPherson Says:

    “I’m no different than anyone else holding comments for moderation. ”
    My experienceis that most bloggers do as I do (as I did with your comments there, in fact)–moderate the first comment from someone, then freely allow other comments after the first unless a profane one then appears (in which case the person is blocked for good).
    Of course you can do whatever you want with your own blog–I was simply pointing out reasons that you may not get more interaction.
    As for the rest, I think you’ve demonstrated my points as well as I can. Thanks.

  24. Michael Eden Says:

    As for the second part, whatever. I see you have “edu” in your domain name. If you think committing massive logical errors constitutes sound thinking, then I am appalled at the dumbing-down of our university system. I swear our culture – and especially our academia – is like a giant reciprocating engine that just gets downward and ever downward dumber and dumber with every stroke.

    I challenge you or anyone else to look at the genetic fallacy, and then explain how you did not commit it twice within like two posts.

    If pointing out obvious stupid logical errors qualifies me as an “ideologue” to you, I shall wear the label with pride.

    As for the first part, I frankly hadn’t thought about doing that. It’s worth considering.

    I’m certainly not calling you a liar over your assertion that you allowed all of my comments after the initial one I left on your site, but from my perspective as the guy leaving the comment, every time I left a comment I got notification message that it was being held up for moderation after I’d sent it. Maybe it was just my browser or something.

  25. Rosie Says:

    Can you tell me which argument you are fighting for – going against illegal immigration into the US or going for it?

  26. Michael Eden Says:

    I am AGAINST illegal immigration.

    I am trying to point out that illegal immigrants are a burden to our country. In fact, as I demonstrate, they are even a burden to their OWN country.

    America should focus on taking care of its own, rather than inviting millions of others to care for when it is NOT taking care of its own. It is like a man taking in dozens of other people’s kids and taking care of them while his own children starve at his feet.

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