If Hillary Won The Debate, Trump May Have Won The Argument

Kind of interesting.  I didn’t watch the entire debate as I had my hike to go on and so had to pull myself away from the debate spectacle – and so I didn’t get to see Lester Holt incredibly unfairly “fact check” the Donald on at least five major issues without ever ONCE bringing up ANY of the myriad of “fact-checkable” dirt on Hillary – but at the time I turned off the TV, it sure seemed to me that Hillary was more prepared for that debate and was doing a better job emphasizing her points.  While Trump was in my view coming across as being too argumentative and frankly squandering opportunities and failing to score on the points he was making.

But then again, what do I know?

Frankly, the very idea of “debates” is actually kind of silly.  We’ve been doing it for well over a century and all, but what’s really the point?  You remember when the President of the United States debated Vladimir Putin?  Oh, wait.  Me neither.  Because it’s never happened.

It would be a better demonstration of presidential fitness to put a knife in the hand of each party’s candidate and push them in a room together and lock the door.  And don’t open it until one of them comes out alive and the other one is a gashed pile of bloody meat on the floor.  I mean, at least we’ve got to see that kind of drama played out by Harrison Ford in “Air Force One.”

I’m just saying I don’t know what “winning” a debate really means, other than the pinky-in-the-air class getting to snort at the candidate that doesn’t suit their ideology very well.

Everybody is saying Hillary won the debate.  And like I said, I don’t blame them.

But maybe Donald Trump lost the debate but won the argument.

Take a look at one of the polls that came out after the debate (and which coming from the LA Times is NOT fond of Donald Trump):

New Poll Since Debate Shows Shift In Trump’s Poll Numbers
Highest poll participation …
by Jack Davis September 28, 2016 at 9:01am
After millions of Americans watched Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump and Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton debate on Monday night, a new poll shows support for Trump is increasing.
The USC Dornsife/Los Angeles Times Daybreak tracking poll, which tracks Americans’ support for the presidential candidates on a daily basis, showed that as of Tuesday, Trump is leading Clinton 46.7 percent to 42.6 percent.
The poll, which unlike other polls tracks the same population over time, represents a significant comeback for Trump, who as of Aug. 14 was trailing Clinton 46.3 percent to 41.6 percent.
The national poll tracks the voting preferences of 3,000 participating voters, but not every voter participates every day. Participation in the wake of the debate was at 90 percent, making it one of the highest participation days since the poll began in July.
Trump has significant leads in many demographic groups.
He now leads Clinton among voters aged 18-34, 44.7 percent to 39.2 percent. Clinton had led among this group throughout the early part of the campaign.
Voters between 35-64 years old also side with Trump 45.5 percent to 43.5 percent. This group has changed preferences repeatedly. Trump also continues to lead among older voters with a 49.5 percent to 44.7 percent lead among voters 65 and over.
From the start, Trump has held a vast lead over Clinton among voters with a high school education or less, and trailed her among college graduates. Among voters with some college education, Trump posts a lead of 48.3 percent to 40 percent.
Among white voters, Trump leads 54.8 percent to 33.7 percent. Although his current 18.2 percent support among black voters is an increase from the summer, Clinton still has a strong showing among black voters with 74.3 percent. Clinton also leads among Hispanic voters, but by a narrower margin of 56.8 percent to 31.8 percent.
Clinton had led among women from the start, and currently leads Trump 50 percent to 38.8 percent. Among men, Trump leads Clinton 54.9 percent to 35.1 percent.
Voters with incomes under $35,000 have favored Clinton throughout the campaign. She leads Trump 49.5 percent to 39.2 percent among these voters. Voters with incomes from $35,000 to $75,000 favor Trump 51.1 percent to 37.6 percent. Upper income voters support Trump 47.9 percent to 43.2 percent.

That poll result goes hand in hand with this:

Post Debate Poll: Clinton Won on Performance, Trump Won Votes
September 27, 2016 By PPD Elections Staff

A Post Debate Poll conducted after the presidential showdown at Hofstra University finds Hillary Clinton put on the best performance, but Donald Trump won votes. While voters 47% to 44% think that Mrs. Clinton “won the first presidential debate,” Mr. Trump won over undecided voters who changed their mind by nearly a 3 to 1 margin.

Nine percent (9%) were undecided on the question of who won the debate.

Among those who were undecided (5%) before the debate, 31% changed their mind and now say they’ll support the New York businessman. By comparison, only 11% of previously undecided voters said they will now vote for the former secretary of state.

The results were noteworthy, considering more voters than not thought Mrs. Clinton gave a better debate performance. Authenticity, honesty and trustworthiness played and will continue to play a big role in voters’ preferences ahead of November.

“Voters are looking for Donald Trump to basically give them permission to vote for him, fair or not,” says PPD’s senior analyst Richard Baris. “If he improves in the next two debates, which he did during the primary, things could get really ugly really fast for Hillary Clinton.”

Regarding the debate, which most mainstream pundits gave to Mrs. Clinton, most voters expected her to be polished on stage. But they were watching to see if Mr. Trump could pass the presidential bar.

“He was restrained, He came off much more natural,” said Shaun Ellis, an independent voter from Hopington, New Hampshire. “Hillary looked weak on the economy,” adding he decided “we need new blood.”


I don’t know for sure if this is all true.  There is such a tendency for people to see what they want to see and view reality through the prism of their ideology.

We’ll have to see what other polls are saying.

But I DO know what I think happened if the above is correct: I believe that Hillary won the debate on the rhetorical side, but Trump successfully won the argument by pounding home the fact that this country is and has been sliding in the wrong direction and Hillary represents the status quo (i.e. further and faster slide in the wrong direction).

The latest Rasmussen Poll says that 67% say that America is heading in the wrong direction, versus a Kim Jong Un-loving 28% who are happy with the direction Obama is taking the country in.  That strikes me as something of an obstacle for Hillary, who is more connected with “the wrong direction” than any candidate in modern political history.

And as the above article points out, people are just trying to see if the “change candidate” is sane enough and stable enough to take a chance on, given that the alternative of Hillary Clinton is just so damn reprehensible.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton is a walking corpse counting on Barack Obama to drag her over the winner’s line.  But one little, tiny thing just happened: Obama just suffered a 97-1 smackdown in a bipartisan Senate that was united against our Disgrace-in-Chief.  And the House was just about as brutal in overturning Obama’s presidential veto in an IN-YOUR-FACE move by Congress.

Obama, meanwhile, continues to claim that everybody on planet earth is wrong and political and partisan save he alone because as our creator god he and he alone is all-wise.

That’s more than just a flesh wound, as they say.  And that’s gonna leave a mark, as they also say.

Hey, THAT would have been a nice question from Lester Holt for Hillary: do you agree with basically everyone, or do you agree with Obama that everyone but him is political and not willing to do the right thing???  But again, no toughies for Hillary from Lester.

I know, I know: the debate society types think Hillary won and that should be all she wrote about who should be president.  But the people who don’t give a damn about debates and just want a halfway-decent LEADER just don’t see it that way.


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