Atheist Country Japan Smashed By Tsunami

That headline is a deliberate provoker.  But please let me explain why I used that headline before you erupt one way or another.

First of all, Japan is in fact one of the most atheistic countries in the world:

And Japan certainly got hit with a monsterous tsunami:

As I write this, I hear that there are 88,000 people missing in Japan.

So there is little question that the title for this article is factually completely accurate.

But is Japan’s unbelief the reason why Japan just got hit with an awful tsunami?

My answer is, “How on earth should I know?”

God doesn’t explain to me why He does a lot of things.  I think He figures I’m too dumb to understand His infinite mind and the infinite complexity of His plan for an incredibly complex world filled with going on 7 billion souls.  And He’s probably right.

I am familiar with Christian “leaders” (I put that in quotes because neither of these men are on my list of Christian leaders) such as Jerry Falwall or Pat Robertson have essentially stated that acts of human destruction such as 9/11 or acts of natural destruction such as Hurricane Katrina and New Orleans were acts of divine judgment for homosexuality.

And they might have been such judgment for such sin, I suppose.  But I doubt if God told Falwell or Robertson any more than He told me.  For one thing, if these men were acting as God’s prophets, God would have told them BEFORE the disasters happened in order to forewarn the people to repent.  That’s the rather clear prophetic pattern of Scripture.  That’s kind of what makes it “prophetic.”

Me?  I don’t pray for God’s destructive violence to destroy my ideological or religious enemies.  Let me explain why.

In a word, I don’t want God to ruthlessly punish others for their sins for fear that God will ruthlessly punish me for mine.  You see, it turns out that I’m not perfect either.

That’s part of a detailed solution to the so-called “problem of evil.”  When the human race fell into sin (as recorded in Genesis), it affected the entire created order (see Romans 8:22).  Evil has become part of the human condition.  And there are literally billions of degrees of evil in the world.  And – unless He destroys the whole world (as He has done and as He will one day do again) – just where is God supposed to draw the line?

What we tend to want is for God to judge everyone who is at least slightly more evil than we are.  But why should that be God’s standard?  But maybe God should obliterate you and all of your family and friends, too.  It’s His universe, after all; not yours.  You don’t get to make the rules in God’s universe.

There’s an interesting passage from Jesus in Luke 13:1-5:

Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”

There is no question: God sovereingly rules over the universe.  And we know that God judges the nations and individual people for sin (see Romans 3).  But only rarely – as recorded even in Scripture (e.g. Psalm 73, why do the wicked prosper?) – do we know the details.

We also know that God is patient.  We know from the Old Testament that God will literally wait hundreds of years before He brings judgment.  And we know from the New Testament (2 Peter 3:9) that God is patient, not wanting any to perish.

We also know that God often holds His sons and daughters by faith to a much higher account (Hebrews 12:5-11).  Just as a good Christian father may not concern himself with other people’s children, but his own had better tow the line.

We will never know this side of eternity why many terrible things happen.  Or why God judged this nation or that individual and spared another.

But we certainly can look upon a great diaster and pause in our own lives to take a look at ourselves and at our own nation, and tremble.  Because what happened to “them” can easily overtake “us” – whoever “they” are or “we” are.  And we all of us need to be ready to meet our Maker.

If we all lived as though death were a postential heartbeat away, I do believe we would live in a much better world.

I look at the many major earthquakes and the disasters they are causing as a sign that we are truly in the last days.  Jesus told us in Matthew 24:7 that ethnic groups (the word is “ethnos”) would rise against ethnic groups, and that there would be famines and earthquakes erupting all over.  And in verse 8 He spoke of them as birth pangs, meaning that as the end came, they would get more and more severe. 

There are certainly famines and fears of famines galore.  That is one of the key realities behind the massive unrest in the Middle East (see also here).

It is a fact that at the beginning of the 20th century, there was at most one major earthquake a year.  Now there are “big ones” erupting all over creation.  There was another huge and deadly earthquake just last month in New Zealand.  And we’re even seeing a rash of earthquake activity in the midwest(see also here).

Jesus also spoke of great catastrophic signs in the waves (e.g. tsunamis) in Luke.  And in Luke 21:8 Jesus said, “Now when you see these things begin to take place, straighten up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

Bottom line: we ought to be looking around, and we ought to be straightening up and flying right.  And if you are a perfect, sinless human being, good for you; but if you have ever sinned so much as once in your life, if you have ever once violated even your own conscience and standard, let alone a perfect, holy God’s, you had better fall at the feet of the one Savior for the human race (John 14:6) and embrace the Lamb of God (John 1:29-34).

Let me provide my own parable to explain a powerful biblical reality.  It’s called the ants on the elephant’s back:

Two ants of different species happen to bump into each other as they crawl across the back of a huge bull elephant.  The larger ant says to the smaller one, “I can’t help by notice I’m larger than you.  That means that I’m closer to being the same size as the elephant we’re crawling on than you.”  Well, in a way, that larger ant is right; but his comparison is nevertheless utterly ridiculous.  Why?  Because the elephant is so enormous compared to the size of either ant – let alone the amount of difference between the ants’ sizes – that a comparison is meaningless.  And that’s the way it is with human righteousness and God’s righteousness.  Billy Graham is considerably more righteous than, say, a Skid Row bum.  But the difference in their personal degress of righteousness is as nothing compared to the awesome holiness and perfection of God.  And you might think you’re better than someone else.  You might even be right.  But you are comparing yourself to the wrong subject.

When we stand before God, we will answer to how we compared to the righteousness of God.  “Be holy, as I am holy” (Leviticus 20:26, 1 Peter 1:13-16), God told us.  And just as we bear His perfect image (Genesis 1:26-27), we bear the responsibility to living up to His perfect character.

Only Jesus lived a perfect, sinless life (Hebrws 4:14-15).  Even the Quran affirms this (Quran 40:55; 48:1-2).  Jesus, fully God, God the Son, assumed a human nature and lived a perfect life on earth.  And He died for our sins so that we could have His perfection by faith.  He became our substitute.  That’s what “Lamb of God” means.

You need that gift of divine grace.  I need that gift of divine grace.  And the people of Japan desperately need it today.

I pray for those who are in Japan.  I pray for their deliverance from both the tsunami and from their unbelief.  And I will join with many other Christians who will send relief to the Japanese people, with prayers that they will look not at me, but at the Jesus who changed my heart and my life, and inspired me to give to others.

Update: I have since written an article entitled, “The Three Fingers Pointing Back At Atheists When Atheists Point A Finger At Christians About Evil And Judgment.”

About these ads

Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

94 Responses to “Atheist Country Japan Smashed By Tsunami”

  1. Erik Says:

    Well said. Pat Preempted…

  2. HL Says:

    A Word in due season, Michael. I am so grateful that the Lord Jesus’ righteousness is imputed to my account. One out of one dies and we do not know when our time on earth will end. But we can know where we will go when we die.
    Disasters are times to consider death, eternity and getting right with ones Maker. Seriously, we should just ‘live ready.’
    I pray for the people of Japan today

  3. brad Says:

    For God’s sake, don’t be a fool !

  4. Pat Says:

    Top notch food for thought. Thanks!

  5. Michael Eden Says:

    Japan will be needing prayers. I left home to go out for dinner. When I got home I learned that they’d had yet another major quake. And in addition there’d been a big one in Tonga.

  6. Michael Eden Says:

    Brad’s tune is sung to the song, “The fool has said in his heart, ‘there is no God.'” (Psalm 14:1).

  7. Rekha Srinivasan Says:

    My mind goes confused when I hear and see such bad things happening around us. Our human brain really cannot understand why these things are happening and it would be good if God could have stopped this. But we really cant understand His ways. I only pray to God that there would not be further destruction and that God should help Japan to cope up and come out of this disaster and more people should turn to Jesus.

  8. Michael Eden Says:

    Rekha Srinivasan,

    You are entirely correct, I believe.

    Hebrews 11:1 says, “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things unseen.”

    I think when you consider Romans chapter 1 and James 2:19 (“You say you believe that God is one; you do well. The demons believe also – and tremble”), “faith” is not merely believing God exist. God is a simple reality that only the fool does not accept (fools don’t accept common sense). So what is faith? Ultimately, it is believing that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (John 3:16). But a major component of that is that God is love (see 1 John 4:8), and that therefore God is good, and God cares.

    THAT takes faith. Especially when we experience dark times.

    It takes faith to believe that you – seemingly a tiny speck in the vastness of the cosmos – are passionately loved by God. But by faith we believe that is true.

    And once you accept that God is good and that God is love, it seems to me that believing in Christ as God’s answer to the otherwise unsolvable problem of human sin becomes almost obvious.

    Jesus Christ dealt with the two fundamental problems that every religion seeks to face – the knowability of God and the holiness of God – in a way that no religion can match. And you can see how God did this in the two names applied to Jesus.

    Allow me to explain by linking to a previous comment:

    [T]o put it in the briefest summary of all, every single religion has to deal with two problems: the knowability of God and the holiness of God. By knowability of God, I mean, how is it that limited human beings can know anything about a transcendent Creator God? And by the holiness of God, I mean, how can we possibly have fellowship with a perfect, holy Being? And no religion in the history of the world addresses those problems like Jesus Christ and Christianity.

    The two names of Jesus are the ultimate answer.

    First, there is the name Immanuel, which means “God with us.” That was what Isaiah propheseid that we would call the coming Messiah who would be born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14). And Isaiah 9:6-7 tells us that this would be no mere human child; He would also be uniquely God. God would assume a human nature. Jesus is “God with us” because Jesus is the eternal Son of God. He knows God because He IS God. And He could reveal God to man perfectly because He assumed a human nature and revealed God to us. According to John 1:1-3, it was Christ, God the Son, who created the universe. And when you read Genesis 1:27, you realize that Christ created man in His image so He could one day assume human image Himself. And to understand this even better, please read Philippians 2:3-11.

    Then there is the holiness of God. And the name “Jesus” is the answer to that dilemma: “Jesus” means, “Jehovah is salvation.” You find by reading the Scriptures that Christ Jesus came to live a perfect life where we could not, and to bear our sins upon Himself, and then die in our place. And just as He rose from the dead, so we can die to sin and be raised in the newness of life through the transforming power of the Holy Spirit.

    No other religion even begins to answer these problems. Only Jesus Christ. Only Christianity. That’s why Jesus said, “No man comes to the Father, except by Me” (John 14:6). Jesus would have been a nut to say this, unless He was exactly who He claimed to be: God with us, come to be the salvation of the human race.

    What other God would do this – create us, give us free will to choose Him or reject Him, come to us in our darkess, and while we were still separated from Him by our sins, literally take the blame for our sins upon Himself, literally die for us (God could only die by taking a human image) to pay for our sins, and then rise from the grave so that those who accepted His salvation could have resurrection life themselves – but a loving God?

    So here I am, in spite of all my problems, believing – and praying for a substantial period each and every day – to a God I believe loves me and has a plan for my life. And who had the solution to my sin, to the evil that is in me, so that I can one day be with Him for all eternity.

    And while, as you rightly say, we often can’t understand why this terrible event or that one occurs, we know – by faith – that this good and loving God has a purpose in allowing certain things to happen as He does.

    And ultimately we trust (“trust” is the verbal form of the noun “faith”) in the goodness of God.

    I join with you in sending my prayers that God will help Japan, and I pray that a good result of this terrible disaster is that more people in Japan and in the rest of the world would turn to Jesus in these last days.

  9. Anonymous Says:

    As an atheist, I have only this to say to you:

    For attempting to force your religion (Maybe “cult” might be accurate) on them, you are… I don’t even know what I can say to this without violating my own standards of decency.

    And, quite frankly, if the invisible sky fairy that is your god proved to me, right here and now, that he was real, I’d still refuse to worship him. A deity who does things like this does not deserve anyone’s respect.

    And, as a nice fellow on the FSTDT forums points out, what do you think of the population along the San Andreas fault, which is mostly Christian?

  10. Michael Eden Says:

    As a Christian, ‘Anonymous,’ I have this response:

    How am I attempting for force my religion on you or anyone else? Is it your allegation that I came to your door with a gun and said, “Belive in Jesus or die?” I can assure everyone that you are quite delusional in that regard.

    As a further underscoring of that point, if I am “forcing” my religion of Christianity on you by merely writing an article on my own blog that you are quite free not to read (I can only offer my word that I did not go to Anonymous’ home and force him to read my article), how are YOU not forcing your religion of atheism on me? While I didn’t impose myself on you or your forum, you literally DID impose yourself on me and on my blog. Just who is forcing their religion on who?

    As to your last question, “what do you think of the population along the San Andreas fault, which is mostly Christian?” First of all, if you think California is a profoundly religious state, you’ve simply never been here. And I won’t take the time to correct your ignorance as to that regard. But that said, just what on earth did I say in my article that would make you ask that question of me? Did you not read past the title, and totally misread and misunderstand my article the way you’ve totally misread and misunderstood all of reality? Just where are you finding the passage in which I say, “Those Japanese got what they deserve, and I for one am GLAD they got nailed?” Because if you had bothered to understand my actual point, I said the exact opposite.

    Here are my precise words:

    But is Japan’s unbelief the reason why Japan just got hit with an awful tsunami?

    My answer is, “How on earth should I know?” [...]

    Me? I don’t pray for God’s destructive violence to destroy my ideological or religious enemies. Let me explain why.

    In a word, I don’t want God to ruthlessly punish others for their sins for fear that God will ruthlessly punish me for mine. You see, it turns out that I’m not perfect either. [...]

    I pray for those who are in Japan. I pray for their deliverance from both the tsunami and from their unbelief. And I will join with many other Christians who will send relief to the Japanese people, with prayers that they will look not at me, but at the Jesus who changed my heart and my life, and inspired me to give to others.

    And in the middle of all that, I quote Jesus’ words that people who perished due to both human evil and natural disasters were NOT more guilty of sin than those who didn’t perish (Luke 13:1-5). So just where is it that I say the sorts of things you falsely accuse me of saying???

    Your words, “if the invisible sky fairy that is your god proved to me, right here and now, that he was real, I’d still refuse to worship him. A deity who does things like this does not deserve anyone’s respect” prove that yours is not an intellectual problem at all, but a moral one. First off, you are the kind of person who believes that the Creator of the universe – YOUR Creator – should jump through whatever hoop you hold for him. God OWES you, on your terribly distorted view of the world. And even as you say that God somehow owes you a personal, hat-in-hand visitation, you proceed to state categorically that if He were to do so, it wouldn’t do any good. Because you’d reject Him anyway. And yet with this incredibly hostile attitude, you actually have the self-absorption to wonder why God doesn’t reveal Himself to you and to those who think like you!!!

    If you had the understanding that your Creator doesn’t owe you anything, but that you owe Him EVERYTHING, you would be a very different person.

    J. Vernon McGee put it this way: “Now, you might have a better plan than God, but what you don’t have is your own universe.” But you think it IS your universe, don’t you? And you are actually angry at God that the Creator would have rules for the creature, rather than it being the other way around as you demand.

    You impose your own religion on me even as you rail that I have no right to impose mine on you, you come to my blog and personally attack me and attack my religion, and all you’re doing is maliciously trying to defame me by making false allegations about what I wrote. And yet, you actually have the gall to exhibit self-righteous sanctimony.

  11. chicoos Says:

    Believe that this is from god.
    If you read holy “QURAN” it clearly mentioned it. No lief displaces from its position without knowing him. Dont make him anger ,Follow his commands and make your life safe here an hereafter.

    Reffer : http://www.progressive-muslim.org/natural-disasters-and-quran.htm

  12. Anonymous Says:

    First, I think I will respond to your last point, as it is entirely flawed: I don’t believe in a creator. That’s kind of what the word “atheist” means. I don’t think my plan for the universe is better than God’s, because I don’t believe God exists. If he does not exist, then he cannot have a plan for me to compare mine to, for obvious reasons.

    I cannot be angry at your god for the same reason.

    I am not trying to make him, metaphorically, “jump through whatever hoop I hold for him” because I do do not believe he is there to do the jumping.

    I am a person who follows evidence. There is no evidence of any god, so I therefore do not believe in one. If God revealed himself in a way that could be proven empirically as the work of a diety, I would believe in him. Worship him? Never, for aforementioned reasons.

    As for your first point, I have two questions:

    1. Do you believe that whatever God does is automatically good?
    2. Do you believe that people being brought to Christianity is good?

    I already know the answers, but this makes debate so much more satisfying.

    The one thing I will concede is that my statement that you intend to force Christianity on people to be an exaggeration.

  13. Anonymous Says:

    Oh, I almost forgot to reply to what you said about California:

    As a matter of fact, Christianity is the dominant religion. (Unless, of course, you are one of those hardcore purists that does not count Catholicism as part of Christianity)

    Yes, I have been there. I did not see the naked people having sex in the middle of the sidewalks that reading posts by fundamentalists such as yourself would have me believe are an everyday thing. I did not see any violence either.

    I am not denying that the latter happens (Though I am going to argue that the former does not), but it is still not as common as people such as you think. In fact, there is less violent crime in California than in some Bible Belt states as of 2004, and while I was not able to find any more recent statistics that encompassed the entire nation, the partial statistics I did find led me to believe that this is still true.

    And hey, speaking of the Bible Belt, what are the tornadoes that hit portions of it and kill Christians? The US experiences the most tornadoes of any country in the world, and tornado alley experiences the most tornadoes of any portion of the US – and it conveniently coincides with portions of Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas that are in the Bible Belt?

  14. Anonymous Says:

    Argh, that question mark at the end of my previous comment was intended to be a period. TYPOS!

  15. Michael Eden Says:

    You’re just as fundamentalist in your religious views as I am, Anonymous. The only difference between you and I is that I seem to have the courage to acknowledge it, whereas you don’t.

    First of all, I’m not letting you off the hook: you barged on to my Christian blog and accused me of imposing my religion on you. Now, I didn’t go post my article on your blog or on your forum. But you are the kind of fascist state atheist that the very fact that I have the freedom to put my views on my own blog is an affront to you; you hate freedom. You want your precious Stalinism. You want your precious Maoism. You want your Cambodian Utopia where people like me are murdered by the tens of millions for having a view different than yours.

    And so I – who merely wrote my own views on my own blog – am somehow “imposing” my views because you want Stalinist atheist mind control. But, of course, there’s nothing wrong with YOU coming to a Christian blog and imposing your OWN views, is there?

    You’ve got some incredibly depraved and warped views of reality.

    Now, you say, “I cannot be angry at your god for the same reason.” The fact that you refuse to follow a pattern that has been established for a thousand years of capitalizing the name of the Deity – whether you believe in Him or not, rather baldly suggests otherwise. For example, I don’t believe in “Allah.” But I don’t have the kind of anger that you dishonestly refuse to acknowledge, and so I capitalize “Allah” because that’s what people who aren’t filled with rage do. Even when they don’t believe in “Allah.” Then I’ll go back to your previous post, where you spat out, “And, quite frankly, if the invisible sky fairy that is your god proved to me, right here and now, that he was real, I’d still refuse to worship him. A deity who does things like this does not deserve anyone’s respect.”

    You’re not angry at God my foot.

    You don’t have the honesty to acknowledge your anger toward God any more than you have the honesty to acknowledge God Himself. But your anger is very real, indeed, just as God is quite real.

    I would use your same quote to refute your false assertion that:

    I am a person who follows evidence

    No, you aren’t. You said it yourself: “if the invisible sky fairy that is your god proved to me, right here and now, that he was real, I’d still refuse to worship him.” You call that following the evidence, do you? Let me rephrase what you said into “science” terms and see how it works: “if Juan Maldacena proved to me, right here and now, that string theory physics is real, I’d still refuse to believe it.”

    Oh, yeah, Anonymous. You go where the evidence leads you, all right. Unless it leads you to where you don’t want to go, in which case you refuse to believe it, no matter what.

    As for the thing about California, let’s assume for the sake of argument that California is the most religious state in the union. Other than the fact than that it amounts to proof that YOUR view is the looney-tune fringe psycho crazy position because EVERYONE knows your nuts, it doesn’t in any way undermine anything I said in my article. Because, as I demonstrated in my previous comment, I in no way said that Japan should be destroyed, and I in no way say that California should be destroyed.

    You ask me questions, but utterly ignore one of the primary things I confronted you with; namely, that you falsified the claim that I somehow advocated for Japan to be destroyed (when I clearly did NOT), without offering any evidence whatsoever that I did. So I don’t particularly feel the need to answer your questions, that basically revolve around a semantic word-play (God is good because God is holy, righteous, cannot lie, etc.). Nobody but asinine people are arguing that if God tortured and raped and murdered a tiny little baby, it would be “good.” So answering your question involves playing a rather stupid semantic game.

    You make a big deal about the fact that if God doesn’t exist, then He cannot have a plan for you. Let’s explore that with a quote from Gleason Archer:

    Gleason Archer, from page 55-56 of his Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties explains why the left posses a mindless herd mentality:

    “But it should be pointed out that consistent atheism, which represents itself to be the most rational and logical of all approaches to reality, is in actuality completely self defeating and incapable of logical defense. That is to say, if indeed all matter has combined by mere chance, unguided by any Higher Power of Transcendental Intelligence, then it necessarily follows that the molecules of the human brain are also the product of mere chance. In other words, we think the way we do simply because the atoms and molecules of our brain tissue happen to have combined in the way they have, totally without transcendental guidance or control. So then even the philosophies of men, their system of logic and all their approaches to reality are the result of mere fortuity. There is no absolute validity to any argument advanced by the atheist against the position of theism.

    On the basis of his won presuppositions, the atheist completely cancels himself out, for on his own premises his arguments are without any absolute validity. By his own confession he thinks the way he does simply because the atoms in his brain happen to combine the way they do. If this is so, he cannot honestly say that his view is any more valid than the contrary view of his opponent. His basic postulates are self contradictory and self defeating; for when he asserts that there are no absolutes, he thereby is asserting a very dogmatic absolute. Nor can he logically disprove the existence of God without resorting to a logic that depends on the existence of God for its validity. Apart from such a transcendent guarantor of the validity of logic, any attempts at logic or argumentation are simply manifestations of the behavior of the collocation of molecules that make up the thinker’s brain.”

    It’s not enough to say that you don’t have a plan, Anonymous. You don’t have anything. You are not rational. You are not intelligent. You are not reasoning. You have no purpose. You have no value. You have no meaning. You have no destiny. And I don’t say that because you’re an atheist; I say it based on your own worldview. Because based on atheism, unless you can refute Archer’s argument, you pretty much got nothin’. You think the however you happen to think merely because the protoplasm in your skull zigged when it should have zagged.

  16. RS Says:

    A very well-written and considerate article. I pray for those whose lives have been devastated by this tragedy, no matter the race or creed.

    Your article touches on a virtue I feel is essential in my life: humility. Under the awesome power of God, we are nothing, and we should recognize that gracefully and with reverence. Even atheists shouldn’t be foolish enough to think there is nothing greater than themselves.

  17. Anonymous Says:

    God isn’t real. It was an earthquake caused by the interaction of two tectonic plates that are moving because of convection currents in the mantle. The earthquake then produced a tsunami that then washed over land that happened to be near the active fault. Land that we call Japan. Where many homosapiens live, which we refer to as Japanese people. duh..

  18. Terryll Preston Says:

    I’ll make this short as I don’t have the time to dabble in a full debate. Michael, I am an Atheist. But I’m not going to bash your article. In fact, I found it to be a surprisingly good read. Yet, in your efforts to defend yourself and your views; you have allowed anonymous to get under your skin, haven’t you? You went from sensible responses to outright name-calling, bitterness, sarcasm and the typical high-mindedness I would expect from dogmatic Christians I deal with here in Texas. I know he pressed some buttons with you, but I wholly and fully thought that you would ‘turn the other cheek’ and respond to him in a kind and gentle manner that someone who worships at the altar of God would have.

    Am I wrong in thinking this?

    You have, in a sense, proven that you are no better than the man (or woman) you have turned the rough side of your tongue to. And that last line to your response was utterly and unforgivably inexcusable for someone who acknowledges themselves as a person of faith. Is that what Christianity has come down to? Degrading insults? Bitter spite? Anger just because someone dared to oppose your view? I don’t justify what Anonymous did in coming onto your blog and accusing you of what he did. But at the same time I have to ask…

    Was that last post you made REALLY the best way to respond to him?

    Just some food for thought.

  19. robbaz Says:

    God don’t exist, never had and never will.

  20. Michael Eden Says:

    RS,

    “Humility” should extend to our views about ourselves in relation to God and in relation to our neighbors, and it should also extend to what we think we know beyond God’s Word and revelation.

    And, yes, I totally agree with you: “humility” is a very appropriate response to what we saw in the power of that earthquake and the power of that tsunami.

    We cannot say that God caused it; what we SHOULD do is pray for God’s mercy for ourslelves and for others. Because, if you read Jesus’ words in Luke 13:1-5, you realize: “We’ve all got it coming.”

  21. Michael Eden Says:

    Anonymous (a different ‘Anonymous’ from the previous),

    You confidently assert that God isn’t real, and then go on to say the earthquake was entirely due to natural events.

    Before I respond, allow me to cite a well-known story:

    Sir Isaac Newton had a friend who, like himself, was a great scientist; but he was an infidel, while Newton was a devout Christian. They often discussed their views concerning God, as their mutual interest in science drew them much together. Newton had a skillful mechanic make him a replica of our solar system in miniature. In the center was a large gilded ball representing the sun, and revolving in proper order around this were small balls fixed on the ends of arms of varying lengths, representing Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. These bails were so geared together by cogs and belts as to move in perfect harmony when turned by a crank.

    One day, as Newton sat reading in his study with his mechanism on a large table near him, his infidel friend stepped in. Scientist that he was, he recognized at a glance what was before him. Stepping up to it, he slowly turned the crank, and with undisguised admiration watched the heavenly bodies all move with their relative speeds in their orbits. Standing off a few feet he exclaimed,

    “My! What an exquisite thing this is! Who made it?”

    Without looking up from his book, Newton answered, “Nobody!”

    Quickly turning to Newton, the infidel said, “Evidently you did not understand my question. I asked who made this?”

    Looking up now, Newton solemnly assured him that nobody made it, but that the aggregation of matter so much admired had just happened to assume the form it was in. But the astonished infidel replied with some heat, “You must think I am a fool! Of course somebody made it, and he is a genius, and I’d like to know who he is.”

    Laying his book aside, Newton arose and laid a hand on his friend’s shoulder. “This thing is but a puny imitation of a much larger system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a design and maker; yet you profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?”

    Whenever we see something – a pyramid, an arrow head, a watch, etc. – we rightly assume it was designed. Why? Because of the complexity that nature can’t account for.

    But what about the complexity of nature? The tectonic plates and the seismic system are incredibly complex parts of an incredibly complex planet in an incredibly complex universe.

    And it is your contention that nobody designed or created it, but that it just happened arbitarily.

    The Big Bang was an incredible event in which all of energy, all of matter, all of space, and all of time itself just exploded into being. Almost as if someone had said, “Let there be light,” I would say. Einstein tried to deceive by adding his now infamous “cosmological constant” to make it appear that what happened somehow didn’t actually happen, and later said that fraud of his was the greatest mistake of his career. Everything which begins to exist must have a cause. The universe had a beginning, which means it had a Beginner. The Big Bang requires a Big Banger.

    So, it seems to me that the reason we have interactions between tectonic plates which move because of convection currents in the mantle, etc. etc., is because this incredibly complex system was DESIGNED this way by a Great Creator.

  22. Michael Eden Says:

    Terryll Preston,

    You give a thought-provoking response which demands a thoughtful answer on my part.

    First of all, I have to point out that you tell me that I gave an inappropriate response. I’ll try to deal with that, and/or admit my fault in a moment. But the thing I must point out is that you had to rely on Judeo-Christian morality in order to say I gave an inappropriate response. And if the Judeo-Christian worldview isn’t in fact true, your criticism of me entirely falls apart. Which is to say that, as an atheist, you have to assume the very thing you say isn’t true in order to criticize me. I find that very interesting.

    If we are the merely random undesigned beings who happened to evolve from microbes by some cosmic accident, the ideas of morality or civility have absolutely no foundation whatsoever. And in fact rather than merely exchanging intemperate words, we should rather be fighting like vicious animals. That is what decides “right” or “wrong” in a strictly evolutionist/atheistic world.

    What would atheist ethics even look like, were you to correct me by them? Other than believing in God, how would I morally disqualify myself of being an atheist, or be a “bad atheist” (the way you suggest I’m acting like a bad Christian?)? If I happened to enjoy torturing, raping and murdering, what precisely would it be that would render me unfit to be an atheist?

    I say all that merely to point out that, in order to rebuke me, you are forced to turn to ethics which you do not deserve to cite. Your own worldview cannot account for them; they are superior to anything you’ve got.

    That said, I now have to defend myself.

    I looked over what I wrote in my last comment to the first “Anonymous” that you refer to. And I actually didn’t see what you see.

    There’s a tactic called “taking the roof off.” Anonymous came to my blog and basically attacked me as “imposing” my religion on him. Which is not only factually completely false, but in fact flies in the face of Anonymous’ own tactics. I pointed that out in graphic terms, yes, but I don’t believe I went off the deep end. Particularly when you consider that I was also responding to other posts that Anonymous had made. Which is to say that there is more going on in that discussion than you would be aware of merely by reading this one article and the comments. And what you view as “name calling” I actually see as pretty accurate descriptions.

    There’s also the fact that I am writing with an awareness of a lot of other things that are going on and are being said by atheists and secular humanists that are, for example, indeed incredibly fascistic. I also cannot help but think of the 100% track record of state atheist regimes for crushing the human spirit (and murdering over 100 million innocent people in peacetime). And when I respond to someone like Anonymous, I am thinking about the absurdity of someone coming from his point of view attacking me for “imposing” my view. And, yes, I’m going to go after him.

    Then there is the discussion – a very pertinent discussion – of what it means to “turn the other cheek.” Which, by the way, only means anything to Christians if Jesus was in fact who He claimed to be: the Son of the Living God who created everything that ever came into being (John 1:1-3). If Jesus isn’t who He claimed, He is either a liar or a lunatic, and I should be deriving my moral principles from a social Darwinian foundation instead (which as I’ve already pointed out doesn’t have an ethic of ‘turn the other cheek’). ‘Turning the other cheek’ would be stupid, if not evil, given a Darwinian context; because what can possibly be more important than my own survival? Being nice for niceness’ sake?

    Also, if I am a soldier fighting against a vicious dictator, am I to turn the other cheek rather than fight back? If I am trying to save a woman who is being attacked by a rapist, should I turn the other cheek rather than defend her? Or should I fight, and fight hard.

    I believe that the truth is being attacked. And I WILL fight for it, and fight hard for it. I’m not attempting to justify depraved behavior, but if atheists are free to tee off on Christians, but Christians are constrained to be “nice,” then we don’t exactly have a fair fight, do we? I am reminded of Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals, as interpreted by an atheist:

    5. Use Your Opponents’ Rules Against Them
    “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
    If you opponent has internal rules that are difficult or impossible to live up to when taken to an extreme, then exploit that mercilessly. Their failure may not benefit you directly, but you can make them look bad for not living up to their own standards and this will help you in the long run. If a Christian Right organization offers free material to anyone who asks, get thousands to ask (and be sure to recycle it all). Take postage-paid envelopes and use them for other purposes — like donating money to different organizations. If a church is giving out free gifts to new visitors, organize several hundred people to visit then find a needy recipient for those gifts.

    Is that what you’re doing, Terryll? Taking cynical advantage of the fact that you have no virtues or morality whatsoever to “live up to,” and then criticizing me with my own superior morality? If so, again, I point out that this is a boomerang for you: because it unmasks the fact that the only way you can have any real morality is by resorting to my superior Christian morality – which you deny.

    But having said all that, I will also acknowledge that I have frequently fallen short of what I know – again, what I know from a moral system that flies in the face of anything you can claim as an atheist – how I should respond to attackers.

    I have recently started praying that A) my Lord will guide me in my writing, and B) that He will guide me in how I respond in my comments. I humbly acknowledge I have a ways to go.

    But it would be greatly informative to me indeed to hear you explain to me, as a consistent atheist, why I should “turn the other cheek” to my enemies when from any ethic of evolutionary survival I should instead destroy them.

  23. Michael Eden Says:

    God don’t exist, never had and never will.

    Robbaz,

    No one has ever explained this to me in such magnificent terms as you.

    I shall surely turn from the error of my thinking after your powerful explanation of the nature of reality.

  24. what Says:

    How to stop being a Christian:
    1)Realize there’s no reason to pick the biblical god over any other god, like Zeus.
    2)Realize that most of your interpretations of biblical lines depend heavily upon whether your relatively modern morality agrees with it or not. Though, then again, maybe you believe in stoning those who plant different kinds of crops side by side.
    3)Read Holocaust literature, stop making excuses and circular interpretations, and realize that a good god simply has no reason to let good people die for no reason, let alone let babies get brutally destroyed.

    It simply runs counter with everything we know, feel and understand for there to be a omniscient “god” who creates people, knowing their future because of how he set up the events and souls and whatnot, and then punishes them for how he made them.
    There is nothing that proves god, nothing that would justify the christian concept of a god(created in the image of ancient rulers) who creates people to suffer because of how he created them with his full knowledge, have competing inner feelings on the truth, and be unable to find logic in the supposed “truths”.

    Stop trying to propagate the power structures used by old leaders. It’s amazing how long their nonsensical lies have lasted because of circular arguments and other nonsense.

  25. what Says:

    To put it a little more bluntly:

    God brutally and enigmatically punishes the creations whom he created as “sinful” in a manner that does not communicate any message, let alone wisdom, and his believers expect that people are supposed to respond with “Truly I should believe these people who say there is a god who punishes the creations whom he made punishment-worthy. He killed my family and slaughtered innocent children, and this band of people believing in one of many different old books claim it is their god telling me to believe in their unproven god, truly he is a good god and it is sensical to believe in him.”

    God sure sounds like a terrorist, except at least terrorists claim responsibility to promote their cause.
    Get out of your self-reinforcing box.

  26. Michael Eden Says:

    How to stop being an atheist:

    1) You go ahead and worship Zeus, then. But the God of the Bible is so massively different than Zeus in so many ways that it literally takes a fool to say there is no difference between the two. And King David had someone exactly like you in mind when he wrote Psalm 14:1.

    Here’s the birth of Zeus, for just one example:

    Supposedly Zeus was born soon after the castration of Ouranos (Father Sky) by Kronos (Zeus’ father). The youngest of 6 children, he was hidden from his father in a cave (Zeus’ siblings being eaten by Kronos for fear they would overthrow him). Rhea(Zeus’ mother), fed Kronos a stone in place of Zeus and gave him a drink of (poisoned) honeyed wine which made him vomit up the other children (and the rock). Zeus gathered his siblings, the cyclopes and the hecatonchieres (Huge 100 armed living trees) and overthrew the titans, beginning the reign of the Olympian gods.

    Now, if you can point out the passage in the Bible that is anything like that about the God of the Bible’s origin, then maybe you’ve got a point. Otherwise, you are the poster boy for Psalm 14:1. Because the God of the Bible is eternal, and uncreated, like the utterly foolish comparison to Zeus, the eternal Creator God fits the criterion for the intelligent designer necessary for the fact that the universe exists. See the Kalam Cosmological Argument http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/how-to-defend-the-kalam-cosmological-argument-just-like-william-lane-craig/

    A great many brilliant people from all walks of life believe passionately in the God of the Bible, including men like Isaac Newton, regarded as the greatest scientist who ever lived. There are some 2.1 billion Christian believers, in addition to the unbroken chain of untold billions more Christian believers since Jesus Christ founded his Church. No one believes in Zeus. Again, your comparison fits Psalm 14:1 magnificently.

    2) Realize that there were seven universal councils of the Christian church by fathers from the Eastern and Western worlds which set forth the parameters of the Christian faith. Today, Cathlics, Protestants, and Orthodox churches all recognize and affirm these historic councils. Anyone or any denomination which affirms the key understanding of the faith set forth by these councils is Christian; any which goes beyond or which denies one of the key undestandings of the universal Christian church is outside the faith. It’s not really that hard; the overwhelming majority of the Bible is straightforward and the only people who tear it down are denominations which have departed from the faith by first departing from the seven Ecumenical councils.

    Again, as you speak about stoning, Psalm 14:1 rears its head. Let’s do a little exploring:

    a) The Old Testament itself speaks of a coming “New covenant”:

    “Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”—Jeremiah 31:31-34

    b) The New Testament addresses that passage and explains it:

    For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.” In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.—Hebrews 8:7-13

    c) Jesus Himself spoke of establishing this New Covenant:

    In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.” — Luke 22:20

    d) When it came to the practice of stoning, Jesus – as the Messiah whom the entire Old Testament pointed to; Whose substitutionary atonement fulfilled the Law of Moses as ‘the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world'; as the establisher of the New Covenant described in the Old Testament and as the Founder of the Christian faith – said:

    When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” — John 8:7

    Again, you, Psalm 14:1. Poster boy. Because only a poster boy would take something like stoning which Jesus – the founder of the New Covenant – specifically abolished and say that believers of the New Covenant should be doing it. Psalm 14:1.

    Here is a decent summary of this New Covenant: http://www.gci.org/law/nutshell

    3a) Recognize that Christians stood against Hitler and Nazism, and that the Holocaust is actually a record of Christian courage as they wrote statements that denounced the Nazi project.

    3b) Recognize that Nazis actually tried to do precisely what “What” is saying: they tried to bring back the pagan gods of mythology, and here are a few articles on that subject:

    http://www.american-buddha.com/lit.godsbeasts.3.htm

    http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/articles/fascism/Nazi5Poewe1.html

    http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/roots(n)-1.htm

    “Gods and beasts, that is what our world is made of.”
    — Hitler, quoted in The Voice of Destruction by Hermann Rauschning

    Now, I dealt with the garbage that “What” spews at great length in this article; here’s a small portion of it:

    And so it became an easy next-step for Nazi propagandists such as Ezra Pound (who is also known as the godfather of modernism) to state that the Jewish religion began when Moses, “having to keep a troublesome rabble in order, scared them by inventing a disagreeable bogie, which he called a god.” And Pound concluded “the greatest tyrannies have arisen from the dogma that the theos is one, or that there is a unity above the various strata of theos which imposes its will upon the substrata, and thence upon human individuals.”

    And Adolf Hitler could then state in his Mein Kampf that:

    “The objection may very well be raised that such phenomena in world history [the necessity of intolerance] arise for the most part from specifically Jewish modes of thought, in fact, that this type of intolerance and fanaticism positively embodies the Jewish nature” [Hitler, Mein Kampf, p. 454].

    The chain began by German scholars was complete: Hitler argued that it was okay to be intolerant of intolerant people, and that the Jews literally epitomized intolerance.

    And none of this was “Christian”; it was a project straight from hell.

    Friedrich Nietzsche – a patron saint of Nazism – correctly pointed out the fact that:

    “Christianity, sprung from Jewish roots and comprehensible only as a growth on this soil, represents the counter-movement to any morality of breeding, of race, of privilege: it is the anti-Aryan religion part excellence” [Nietzsche, "The Twilight of the Idols"].

    And so, a good Nazi was a Gottglaubiger. Rather than putting “Christian” on personnel forms they wrote down “Gottlaubig” – representing a “vague pseudo-philosophical religiosity” – to indicate that, while they were not “godless communists,” they were most certainly not “Christian.”

    So Hitler publicly said what he needed to say in speeches to deceive a mass population who had been bombarded with anti-Christian heresy and anti-Christian anti-Semitism, to bend them to his will. But to his inner circle he said very different things than what he said publicly. Hitler described to them that “after difficult inner struggles I had freed myself of my remaining childhood religious conceptions. I feel as refreshed now as a foal on a meadow” (Ernst Helmreich, “The German Churches Under Hitler,” p. 285).

    What else did those closest in Hitler’s inner circle say about his “Christianity”?

    From Joseph Goebbels’ diary, dated 8 April 1941 (Tue):

    The Fuhrer is a man totally attuned to antiquity. He hates Christianity, because it has crippled all that is noble in humanity. According to Schopenhauer, Christianity and syphilis have made humanity unhappy and unfree. What a difference between the benevolent, smiling Zeus and the pain-wracked, crucified Christ. The ancient peoples’ view of God was also much nobler and more humane than the Christians’. What a difference between a gloomy cathedral and a light, airy ancient temple. He describes life in ancient Rome: clarity, greatness, monumentality. The most wonderful republic in history. We would feel no disappointment, he believes, if we were now suddenly to be transported to this old, eternal city.”

    Goebbels also notes in a diary entry in 1939 a conversation in which Hitler had “expressed his revulsion against Christianity. He wished that the time were ripe for him to be able to openly express that. Christianity had corrupted and infected the entire world of antiquity.” [Elke Frölich. 1997-2008. Die Tagebücher von Joseph Goebbels. Munich: K. G. Sauer. Teil I, v. 6, p. 272].

    Hitler also said, “Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.” [Hitler's Table Talk, Enigma Books; 3rd edition October 1, 2000, p. 343].

    Author Konrad Heiden quoted Hitler as stating, “We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany.” [Heiden, Konrad A History of National Socialism, A.A. Knopf, 1935, p. 100].

    Albert Speer – another Nazi who worked extremely closely with Hitler – reports in his memoirs of a similar statement made by Hitler:

    You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?” [Albert Speer. 1971. Inside the Third Reich Translated by Richard Winston, Clara Winston, Eugene Davidson. New York: Macmillan. p 143; Reprinted in 1997. Inside the Third Reich: Memoirs. New York: Simon and Schuster. p. 96. ISBN 0-684-82949-5].

    Adolf Hitler sounds like an atheist to me. Certainly, Hitler was absolutely not a Christian. He cynically used Christianity like he cynically used everything else that was good; he took ruthless advantage of it as simply another means by which to package his lies to the German people.

    The fact of the matter is that Fascism and Nazism were quintessentially hostile to Christianity, and even to monotheism.

    Hannah Arendt describes Nazi spirituality in her book Eichmann in Jerusalem:

    When convicted Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann went to the gallows, “He was in complete command of himself, nay, he was more; he was completely himself. Nothing could have demonstrated this more convincingly than the grotesque silliness of his last words. He began by stating emphatically that he was a Gottglaubiger, to express in common Nazi fashion that he was no Christian and did not believe in life after death” [p. 252].

    One of the leading experts on fascism, Ernst Nolte, defined fascism as “the practical and violent resistance to transcendence” [Nolte, Three Faces of Fascism: Action Francaise, Italian Fascism, Nazi Fascism, 1965, p. 429]. Fascism was anti-God, anti-supernatural and anti-transcendence.

    Gene Edward Veith says:

    It is particularly important to know, precisely, why the Nazis hated the Jews. Racism alone cannot explain the virulence of Nazi anti-Semitism. What did they see in the Jews that they thought was so inferior? What was the Jewish legacy that, in their mind, so poisoned Western culture? What were the Aryan ideals that the Nazis sought to restore, once the Jews and their influence were purged from Western culture?

    The fascists aligned themselves not only against the Jews but against what the Jews contributed to Western civilization. A transcendent God, who reveals a transcendent moral law, was anathema to the fascists” [Gene Edward Veith, Jr., Modern Fascism: Liquidating the Judeo-Christian Worldview, p. 13].

    By killing the Jews, Hitler intended to kill the God of the Bible.

    So we find that what the atheist “What” says and wants religiously speaking and what the Nazis said and wanted religiously were basically the same thing.

    Finally, it needs to be pointed out that what “What” is decrying is the problem of evil. And I can say two things about that: 1) that the logical problem of evil is pretty much considered solved, given the work of Alvin Plantinga, and few well-known atheist philosophers bother to resort to it today. And 2) that the problem of evil is a boomerang that comes back to nail atheists in the head. For example, if there is no God, then there IS no evil. Evolution is perfectly fine with rape, for example. And atheism is perfectly fine with mass murder and mass killing, too. Consider that officially state atheist regimes were responsible for more than 100 million murders of their own people in peacetime.

    “What” wants to say, “Look at all this evil. There can’t be a God.”

    But I want you to see the flip side: if there is no God, there is no “evil.” And the Holocaust – just as all the murders and all the crushing of the human spirit by official state atheist regimes – was perfectly natural, perfectly normal, and perfectly okay the next time the next dictator does it.

    Would you rather see evil and ask God why He allows it, or would you rather say, “There is no evil, there is no right or wrong,” and live out the consequences???

  27. Michael Eden Says:

    A quote:

    In response to this formulation of the problem of evil, Plantinga showed that this charge of inconsistency was mistaken. Even [J.L.] Mackie admits that Plantinga solved the problem of evil, if that problem is understood as one of inconsistency. It is, therefore, difficult to see why Plantinga’s Free Will Defense should be found wanting if that defense is seen as a response to the logical problem of evil. As an attempt to rebut the logical problem of evil, it is strikingly successful.

    What Alvin Plantinga demonstrated is that it is logical to state that an all good God had to allow evil in order to create free-willed finite human beings. God could have chosen not to create free-willed finite human beings at all and had no evil. And the only argument that seriously remains is to argue that God is evil for creating human beings.

    So I’m supposed to argue a problem that has been resolved even by top atheist philosophers with a poster boy for Psalm 14:1??? “What’s” entire argument rests upon a dilemma that isn’t a dilemma unless one is ignorant. When he says God is acting “in a manner that does not communicate any message, let alone wisdom,” he is clearly stating an argument from the inconsistency of God and evil. Which has been blown away, as admitted even by intelligent and informed people on his own side.

    But let me tell a story:

    Once upon a time in a very liberal town a pair of home invasion thugs burst into a home. They tortured the husband, beat him terribly, and left him for dead tied up in the basement. Meanwhile they repeatedly raped his wife and his daughter. When they were finished, they burned the house and burned the family alive. Only the husband – who managed to escape and run for help – survived the vicious conflagration.

    [If this sounds familiar it's because it basically happened as I describe]. And interestingly, this same basic thing happened to a Christian in Pakistan for refusing to convert to one of “What’s” alternative religions.

    But let me move on with my story:

    The husband finds out that the men who murdered, raped and tortured his family before burning them alive had been caught and were being held by the police.

    Enraged, the husband goes to confront them. He enters the jail shouting, “Where are they???”

    “We let them go,” the liberal sheriff says.

    “You WHAT?” the husband and father roared? “WHY?”

    “Because we’re a loving police department, that’s why.”

    There can be no love without justice. God will ultimately bring about perfect justice at the end of time when He judges the world and every human being. “What” will be one of the sobbing, screaming, pleading masses that day, it would seem. Until that day, evil will continue to exist along with people like “What,” whom God permits to live even though God should probably snuff him out on “What’s” own presentation as to why God is to blame for everything.

    I should again point out that – apart from God – NOTHING is “evil.” What IS evil? Every single culture that has ever existed has defined it in terms of God or the gods. Apart from God, as the Bible affirms, “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes” (Judges 17:6). Whose idea of evil should we listen to? The Marxists? Atheists like Stalin and Mao, who murdered tens of millions of their own people and crushed the human spirit? Hitler’s? Should “evil” be determined on the basis of “might makes right”? Just start a war and kill the most people, and YOU get to decide what right and wrong are.

    Let’s not forget that the logical outcome of atheism in politics is social Darwinism and believe me you don’t want that if you have any moral intelligence whatsoever.

    I also find it simply amazing that an atheist who undoubtedly supports and defends abortion given that abortion has killed more people – let alone children – than all the wars in human history combined.

    In his support for abortion, What is personally responsible for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of millions of murdered children. That is how he has personally abused his free will. And yet this poster boy for Psalm 14:1 actually points the finger at God.

    God created the world “very good.” And He created man and woman “good” (Read Genesis 1-3). But because of Satan’s lie (which frankly reminds me of “What’s” line of reasoning), Adam and Eve distrusted God and went their own way. And sin and evil entered the world and the human race. Now God can wipe out evil; all He has to do is eradicate every single human being, and voila, no more evil.

    And perhaps that’s the tactic that “What” seeks. Because between officially state atheist regimes and abortion, his ilk has murdered untold hundreds of millions of human beings.

    As God put it in Proverbs 8:36, “But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death.”

    A few more that clearly seem to apply:

    Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools – Romans 1:22

    You love evil more than good, Falsehood more than speaking what is right. — Psalm 52:3

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! — Isaiah 5:20

    In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe to keep them from seeing the light of the glorious gospel of the Messiah, who is the image of God. — 2 Corinthians 4:4

    Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron — 1 Timothy 4:2

  28. margarita Says:

    THANK YOU SOOOOO MUCH FOR SETTING IT STRAIGHT. I thought you were going to say “definitely they are being judged”, however, you quoted the very verse I would have put! Jesus said, Lest you repent, you shall ALL LIKEWISE PERISH! If God were in fact JUDGING Japan for their sin and unbelief, HE WOULD HAVE TO JUDGE US ALL!! And I’m also greatful that He has decided to be patient as He is known to be, because He would have to judge me also, and as it turns out, I’M SOO NOT PERFECT EITHER!!!

  29. Michael Eden Says:

    Margarita,

    I hope this doesn’t color your perception of the article, but I wouldn’t say that “If God were in fact JUDGING Japan for their sin and unbelief, HE WOULD HAVE TO JUDGE US ALL.” In fact, I’d disagree with that statement, as it’s worded, as I study the Scriptures.

    Just read the Minor Prophets, for instance, and you will see numerous examples of God, through His prophets, revealing that He will judge particular nations for their particular sins. He doesn’t have to judge everyone all at once to judge anyone. I think it is rather obvious that God can tell the differenc between a torture-rapist murderer and a child telling a lie. God’s judgment is perfect, just as His mercy is perfect.

    What I am saying is that 1) without such a prophecy today, we can’t know that God was judging Japan with the earthquake/tsunami, or that God judged America with 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina; and 2) that (and here I completely agree with you) we should NEVER hope that God judges a nation like Japan. Because we deserve it too.

    I see that you have a good heart that recognizes this. You and I pray, “God, please don’t treat me as I deserve.” And we realize that that also means that we shouldn’t be calling for God to treat others as they deserve, either.

    I believe that the Old Testament sets forth that God is sovereign over the affairs of nations, and that He does in fact bring divine judgment in His perfect time. And it is for that very reason that I look at myself and I look at my own nation, and tremble. Because we don’t have enough righteousness to avert divine judgment here, either.

    There’s another thing about God’s judgment. From my own studies and meditations, I have come to believe that God isn’t actively zapping people and places with thunderbolts; rather, at a certain point He begins to withdraw His blessing and allows nature to take its course. Which is to say that God could have prevented a disaster, or protected from it. But didn’t.

    A number of atheists are livid about this. But they themselves believe in a causal universe, and that’s all I’m talking about. If you sin and violate God’s image for a long enough period of time, God will ultimately allow the consequences of your actions and attitudes to overtake you. That was part of what our founding fathers called “Natural Law.”

    But there’s still more. Because we have also been repeatedly warned that in the last days, we would see earthquakes and terrible signs in the seas and wars and famines.

    It’s not that this should be a surprise. It’s God using pain as a megaphone, as C.S. Lewis put it.

    We mourn the loss of life and the destruction of homes and businesses that Japan is facing. It’s terrible. But in addition to caring about our lives here on earth, we need to care about the infinitely longer eternity that is coming. And we need to be prepared to face that eternity.

    I don’t presume to call down God’s judment on Japan. But I do agree with C.S. Lewis that pain is God’s megaphone to rouse a deaf world. And as we see the terrible calamity, we all of us need to look and listen.

  30. margarita Says:

    Michael,
    After reading your response, I still agree with you. None of us can say for sure if Japan is, in fact, facing the wrath of God because of their sin and unbelief. You are correct still, that all over the Old Testament, The Lord sent prophet after prophet to warn Israel to return to Him and turn from Balaal. If they would not, He would deliver them into the hands of their enemies. The whole reason I even found your blog was because I was doing a Google search on just what has been Japan’s sin as of lately. I’m not a big fan of opening my mouth to speak about anything that I haven’t done my homework on, and this is one of those things. What has been their sin? Sexual immorality? Idolatry? Serving “mammon” instead of God Almighty? All of the above?? God loves the sinner and hates the sin. The world cannot see this. They don’t understand that you’re still correct in saying that The Lord DOES INDEED USE PAIN AND SUFFERING TO BRING US CLOSER TO HIM! How many people do you and I know that truly pray without ceasing when the times are great? You are correct even still to use the referral of 9/11 and the USA. I was irritated with Anonymous too. We are a nation turning from God more and more every day. The Lord clearly states in the Bible that the “end times” will be just like the days of Noah, and homosexuality was running rampant in his day. I see this all over our culture in America. And yet, I love how you defend The Truth, because as you stated previously, THE TRUTH IS BEING ATTACKED, AND IT’S OUR JOB AS CHRISTIANS TO DEFEND IT AND FIGHT HARD FOR IT. Jesus made it clear that when bad things happen to “good people”, it’s not to say that they are more evil than you and I. But God may in fact be allowing the consequences of their sin be upon them. I smoked cigarettes for almost twenty years. Has God forgiven me for destroying His temple? Absolutely. Will he remove the consequences for me if I happen to get sick from it? NO! And that’s fine with me, because I have never made it a habit to ask God why in a lot of situations that I don’t understand. Man looks for a “sign”. I look around me. I see that we are still discovering and learning about the things that He made in ONE DAY! How do people not see this?? Jesus talks about man and how we as sinful humans are able to give wonderful things and much love to our children. How much more, then, will God give wonderful things to those who seek Him and love Him?? The whole world needs The Lord. Even Anonymous. I’m very proud of the way you dealt with him. I’m very proud of the way you dealt with Terryl too! I will call it “defense-ogetics”, since I don’t know why it was given the name “apologetics” in the first place; WE CERTAINLY ARE NOT APOLOGIZING! You aren’t just blessed, you are bold! And God loves that! I’m glad I found your blog!

  31. margarita Says:

    And on another note, I was appalled also at the atheists that wrote in on your article. I agree with you, they are filled with anger and yet they claim that they don’t believe there is a God. They’re angry that He would make rules for HIS CREATION! LOL! They can’t stand the fact that there are specific requirements for getting into HIS HEAVEN! HIS WAY! I find that sad and yet I want to ask them this. When they applied for college, did they get mad at Yale or Harvard for having the strictest requirements for getting into their school? I mean, I don’t hear anyone screaming bloody murder because Yale has decided that unless you are an A+ student since kindergarten, make over 100 thousand a year (or have parents that do) or are a celebrity or athlete you simply DO NOT QUALIFY to attend classes at Yale. Let’s say they actually fulfill the requirements and get into Yale. Have they questioned the books they are told to learn from? I haven’t heard anyone in college scream bloody murder because they don’t know who the author is, or how old the book is, or who wrote it and where they got their knowledge from. I hear this all day long.
    “The Bible was written thousands of years ago.”
    “I don’t know who wrote the Bible, so I can’t believe in it.”
    No one questions what they read in college or in magazines. They’re too busy questioning the Word of God. Everything else they read they “take for Gospel”. Now I wonder where that saying came from!

  32. anonymous8965 Says:

    can somebody please explain: why did Jesus kill thousands of Japanese men, women, and children?

  33. Michael Eden Says:

    can somebody please explain: why did Jesus kill thousands of Japanese men, women, and children?

    anonymous8965,

    How about if you first explain to me how you – as a proponent of abortion that has murdered an average of 42 million innocent human beings every single year for the past forty years - has the moral right to lecture anybody about a few thousand??? How about if you show a little outrage that your beloved abortion has killed more human beings than all of the wars in human history before you point the finger at anyone else???

    How about if you explain why you have a right to be so indignant – and this even given your ridiculous premise that “Jesus killed thousands of Japanese” – when the officially state atheist regimes that you and people like you are always pushing for have murdered over 100 million of their own people during peacetime alone???

    Allow me to quote one of the leaders of your official state atheist regimes:

    “One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is just a statistic” — Joseph Vissarionovich Stalin

    And do you know want to point a finger over the “just a statistic” of a few thousand Japanese deaths, do you???

    How about if you further explain to me how you have this outrage given your atheistic Darwinian evolutionary assumptions such as “the survival of the fittest.” Is it a crime all of a sudden that some thousands of Japanese just got redefined as “unfit” by your own hateful worldview???

    Perhaps after you finish that explanation, Mr. Poster boy for Psalm 14:1, you can explain precisely what would disqualify a Joseph Stalin, an Adolf Hitler, a Mao Tse Tung, a Pol Pot or a Kim Jong Il from being an “atheist” in good standing. What is it about atheist ethics that would remove from atheism a man who enjoyed torturing, raping and murdering???

    You can also explain how, as an atheist who believes that human life happened entirely by random chance without any ultimate purpose, without any ultimate meaning and without ultimate value (and see here for a detailed exploration of that), why anything ultimately matters at all? We’re all going to go completely extinct anyway, on your death-loving view.

    Just who the hell – and that is a place that you shall surely experience if you don’t fall flat on your face and repent – are you to lecture God???

    You answer those questions and I will happily answer your question, you hypocrite.

  34. Michael Eden Says:

    Margarita,

    The atheists who buzz here remind me of Paul’s analogy of the potter and the clay:

    But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ (Romans 9:20).

    Denying God, they seek to usurp His place; and they the CREATURE stand in judgment of their CREATOR.

    God did not set out to destroy man; man set out to destroy himself. In the Garden, God created human beings in His image and placed them in a perfect environement. But they chose to disobey God and sin because Satan convinced them that God was somehow holding out on them even after He created them and gave them Paradise. As a result, sin and death entered the world. Precisely as God said it would.

    These atheists are like Cain, who murdered his righteous brother and then complained that God was punishing him (Genesis 4:13). How dare the Creator have any standard whatsoever for His creature? these atheists mock. And they denounce God for these few thousand Japanese deaths when they themselves have literally murdered HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS in their abortion mills and in their official state atheist regimes. These are always people whose souls swim in hypocritical and evil double-standards.

    The truth is, as you know, that God’s mercy is like nothing that can be described in this world any other way than the Creator of the universe taking a lowly human nature and taking the blame for mankind so He could die in our place (Philippians 2:3-11).

    And, of course, you cannot have love or mercy without justice. An unjust universe is a hateful one. God must judge sin, or there is no difference between sin and righteousness, or hate and love.

    But atheists despise God whether He is being just or whether He is being merciful.

    Some day, very soon, God will give both Christian and atheist exactly what they want: Christians want the presence of God, and God will give His presence to them for all eternity; and atheists despise the presence of God, and they will have their own God-free hell all to themselves.

    I truly appreciate your encouragement.

    Btw, the word “apologetics” comes from a Greek word “apologia” which is actually used 8 times in the New Testament. Let me quote the two uses in Acts:

    “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you.” (Acts 22:1)

    “I answered them that it is not the custom of the Romans to hand over any man before the accused meets his accusers face to face and has an opportunity to make his defense against the charges.” (Acts 25:16).

    Your intuition is quite correct that “apologetics” means “defense.” It means “a reasoned defense.”

    My favorite usage is in 1 Peter 3:15:

    but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

    I know that sometimes I need to work on that “with gentleness and reverence” part. I must learn to suffer fools better. But I am a work in progress.

  35. Lankin Says:

    Margarita… true.
    “[7] So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” (John 8)
    I mean HOW do believers determine what behaviour God minds? What category he picks over another? A queer person spending his time in charity work, compared with a straight man busy beating up his children, e.g.?
    Oh btw the Leviticus tells me I have to kill my child when it curses me.
    “[9] For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.” (Leviticus 20)
    I didn’t. Now — am I a bad Christian? Okay Solomon modifies it, only saying their tears shouldn’t move me, but advises against killing… Oh wait, Jesus said that we should become like children — what implies an open mind, NOT knowing every scripture by heart, maybe, and also doing things wrong at times, still with the boundless trust in all will turn out well only a child can have.
    Even if you choose to be a Christian — Christ himself never damned any one, or threatened with nuklear desasters, apocalypses, or tsunamis, selectively purging the earth from the infidels — it takes an EFFORT to be a judgemental Christian.
    Christ, as the bible pictures him, was a quite cool guy in every respect. A bit harsh maybe with the temple business, didn’t even care for the scripture in parts himself (See Marc) and — he was a jew! Oh he visited Mary of Magdala and had a questionable private sexual life maybe in total. At least, little is reported. He is EXACTLY the kind of guy the church would pick on nowadays and be not at all fond of.

    ***
    Pss.130
    [1] Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD.
    [2] Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.
    [3] If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
    [4] But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.
    [5] I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.
    [6] My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.
    [7] Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.
    [8] And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

  36. Michael Eden Says:

    Lankin,

    I won’t presume to answer for Margarita, but I don’t quite know what to make of your comment.

    You make a good point when you ask, “I mean HOW do believers determine what behaviour God minds? What category he picks over another? A queer person spending his time in charity work, compared with a straight man busy beating up his children, e.g.?” And of course, the answer is that we can’t decide which sin is necessarily worse than another. God’s ways are higher than man’s ways; His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9). We can’t figure all of that out. But obviously, the Creator of the Cosmos can.

    You are also right that Jesus does not call upon us to “judge” others. One of the reasons we are told not to judge others is because (as you point out) we lack the ability to be able to do so. It’s ultimately God’s job alone to judge. But even though we can’t know which sin is worse than another on an infinite rating scale doesn’t in any way mean that we can’t know what “sin” is; because the entire Bible that Jesus said He came to fulfill is FILLED with statements about what is righteous and what is sin.

    I often tell a parable that I use in the article that is useful again here:

    Two ants of different species happen to bump into each other as they crawl across the back of a huge bull elephant. The larger ant says to the smaller one, “I can’t help by notice I’m larger than you. That means that I’m closer to being the same size as the elephant we’re crawling on than you.” Well, in a way, that larger ant is right; but his comparison is nevertheless utterly ridiculous. Why? Because the elephant is so enormous compared to the size of either ant – let alone the amount of difference between the ants’ sizes – that a comparison is meaningless. And that’s the way it is with human righteousness and God’s righteousness. Billy Graham is considerably more righteous than, say, a Skid Row bum. But the difference in their personal degress of righteousness is as nothing compared to the awesome holiness and perfection of God. And you might think you’re better than someone else. You might even be right. But you are comparing yourself to the wrong subject.

    So, on the other hand, when you ask, “I mean HOW do believers determine what behaviour God minds?” I submit that the answer is rather blatantly obvious. It’s not about being unable to see what is right and what is sinful behavior. God clearly gives us that in His Word. As an example that you yourself provide, we know that both homosexuality (Romans 1:24-27) and abusing one’s children (Ephesians 6:4, Colossians 3:21) are both sins. We’re not told which one is worse on a rating scale, per say. The bottom line is that we don’t need to know that; only God needs to know, because ultimately only God is Judge, and only God will pass sentence for sin. But we DO clearly know that they are both sins.

    If we didn’t know what is good and what is evil, or what is righteous and what is sinful, then how could we even live? (Oh, rape and murder and stealing and lying are all wrong? How could we have known that?!?!?). We are told very clearly what is pleasing to God and what is displeasing to Him. But at the same time, we are not to judge ourselves superior to others, because we all fail so massively compared to our perfect, holy God that such a comparison is ridiculous and even wicked. And particularly when we’re living sinfully, it’s our depraved nature to see ugliness and sin in others, but ignore what is actually far worse sin in ourselves. I am frequently amazed at many people’s endless ability to rationalize and justify their actions, and in Jesus’ words see the tiny specks in others eyes while simultaneously ignoring the giant logs in their own.

    For what it’s worth, I’ve been pointing that out to atheists commenting on this very article; they dare to judge God while ignoring the terrible recent history of their own worldview.

    Jesus came to live a perfect life (meaning He never sinned once) in our place and then die in our place for our sins. Because the consequences of sin is death (Romans 3:10, 3:23). And God showed His love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:8). And, of course, John 3:16 tells us that God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish (in hell) but have eternal life.”

    Interestingly, Jesus talked more about hell than anyone in the Bible. Of the 12 times “hell” is used, Jesus used it 10 of those 12 times (Matt 5:22; Matt 5:29; Matt 5:30; Matt 10:28; Matt 18:9; Matt 23:15; Matt 23:33; Mark 9:43; Mark 9:45; Mark 9:47; Luke 12:5).

    Jesus died to SAVE us from something. He came to die to save us from our sins and from the hell that we would receive in judgment for our sins. Romans says, “For the wages of sin is death.” And “wages” refers to what we have earned; we have all EARNED death and hell. Jesus took the blame for our sins, and died in our place. And then bodily rose again from the dead, such that if we believe in Him, put our trust not in our own personal goodness but in Christ’s, we can live in Him and through Him.

    Pretty cool, I would say.

    Now, go on to read the book of Revelation. Christ came first of all to save us from sin; when He returns again it shall be as King of kings and as Lord of lords. Jesus talks about that return in Matthew 24 and 25. And in Matthew 25:41, for example, Jesus says, “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels… (vs 46) “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

    So, yes, Jesus most certainly DOES “damn and threaten.” But it’s not a “threat”; it shall surely come to pass for anyone who rejects His free offer of forgiveness and salvation.

    C.S. Lewis describes that gates of hell as being locked from the inside. There will be those who want God to be in their lives, and freely welcome the Christ who ‘stands at the door and knocks” into their hearts. Heaven is for them. And there will also be those (and Jesus says BROAD is the road that leads to destruction) who don’t want Him. And hell is for them. Either way, God will give you exactly what you demonstrated in your life that you wanted.

  37. the bible Says:

    anonymous,

    As for your first point, I have two questions:

    1. Do you believe that whatever God does is automatically good?
    2. Do you believe that people being brought to Christianity is good?

    my answer…

    1. “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.” Gen 1:31
    “In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began.” Titus 1:2
    “Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.” Eccl 7:29

    2. “For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” Ro 2:13
    “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Mt 7:21

  38. Michael Eden Says:

    Thanks for adding that, the Bible.

    Since anonymous was trying to take a shot at the Christian worldview, I figured he deserved a shot at his atheist worldview.

    Another thing to realize is that anonymous’ project was to ask a rhetorically loaded question phrased in the “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?” format.

    But as you point out, “God IS good.”

  39. margarita Says:

    Michael, this is YOUR stage and YOUR spotlight, but people should stop paying attention to the Davinci Code and realize that Christ never had a “private sexual life”. He remained pure. MUCH TO THE DEVIL’S DISMAY! I’m sure he tried, but failed miserably. If it had been differently, I’m sure God Almighty would have included that in His Word. I just had to get that off my chest. :D

  40. Michael Eden Says:

    Margarita,

    Last month’s Christianity Today had an article that I think was titled, “Answering Fools.” It pointed out that the author of the DaVinci Code had written several books prior that had never sold more than a few thousand copies. And Stephen King compared the author to being the intellectual equivalent of Macaroni and Cheese. He was mediocre at best, CT said, and it was Christian outrage that lifted this nobody and his blasphemous book to stardom.

    The article cited Proverbs 26:4-5 as a dilemma for Christians:

    Don’t answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are. Be sure to answer the foolish arguments of fools, or they will become wise in their own estimation.

    So on the one hand, fools don’t deserve the time of day, and wasting too much time on them makes you look foolish; but if you DON’T refute them, the silence gives them credibility. It’s a balancing act.

    Problem is, most of us don’t do balancing acts well.

    Of course you’re right. The even greater flaw in the DaVinci Code is that Jesus didn’t die on the cross (which means the whole world is lost to hell, including you and me). Rather, He lived on and had this secret life.

    Problem is that THE most-attested fact of human history is that Jesus died on the cross. That’s sort of a problem for the historical reliability of the Quran, too. Everything that the DaVinci Code says happened from that point on is utter garbage. But people who love blasphemy, of course, eat it up like starving coyotes eating other creatures feces and vomit.

    Not all that long ago a video game company faked “Christian outrage” at a media event. They literally paid people to pretend to be angry Christians. Because our culture has morally degenerated to a point that if something is depraved, it is popular.

    Thomas Jefferson (whom history-despising liberals want to twist into a Deist) put it best: “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.”

  41. margarita Says:

    Hi Mike. In response to the Proverbs 26:4-5, I will quote Titus 3:9-11..
    The Discipline of factious men,
    “But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.”

  42. hoihoi Says:

    this is Japan…

  43. hoihoi Says:

    Atheist Country Japan ?

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091228045804AAUDgZH

  44. Michael Eden Says:

    hoihoi,

    My response is that you care committing a basic fallacy of false premise. You assume that if one is a Buddhist that one cannot be an atheist, because Buddhism is a religion and atheism means having no religion.

    But that is wrong. Atheism IS a religion. Not only does “atheism” deal with all the fundamental questions that any religion deals with, but the courts have ruled that atheism is a religion. And the fact that Buddhism is atheistic in that there IS no personal Creator God is itself evidence that “not believing in God” hardly disqualifies one from being “religious.”

    But I would go on to say more.

    I would first point out that the fact that there is less crime in Japan than, let’s say, the U.S. is a rather meaningless fact. There was less crime in the heyday of the U.S.S.R., too. A ruthless police state in which one is guilty until proven innocent can accomplish a great deal toward reducing the crime of citizens.

    Further, Japan is an intresting culture. Some aspects to it are good, and some are very bad.

    For example, Japan is also the country that perpetrated the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, the vicious Unit 731 that literally performed vivisections on living, conscious human beings, and war crimes galore.

    And Japan has never even BEGUN to face its war criminal past.

    As for Buddhism, there was a conflict that Buddhism recognized at the outset of WWII. Can a Buddhist kill and murder? It was decided that if the Buddhist Japanese killed with serenity in their hearts, it was okay. And under that view the Japanese soldier was even more ruthless and vicious and fanatic than the Nazis with perfect tranquility.

    When America defeated Japan, we imposed our superior Judeo-Christian culture on Japan. WE created their system; Japan could not even possibly have created the present nation as it is today with their traditional worldview.

    Then there’s stuff like this: the fascination of modern Japan with child porn.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/04/child-pornography-japan_n_831196.html

    http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/223346/japan-child-porn-cases-surge-to-record-high

    http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/japan.htm

    http://www.economist.com/node/15731382

    The final thing I would say is that the United States is both the most religious moral and one of the most irreligious and immoral countries in the world at the same time. And I would point out that the more Republican you are, the more religious and moral; and the more Democrat you are, the more irreligious and immoral. We are two worlds. And as a result of the freedoms that our Judeo-Christian founding fathers gave us, people have the freedom to choose what they want to be: good or evil.

    http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/whose-country-do-we-want-our-founding-fathers-or-our-secular-contemporaries/

    http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2011/01/24/secular-humanist-left-so-tolerant-they-want-to-purge-anyone-who-isnt-just-like-them/

  45. hoihoi Says:

    rape of Nanking? just see the after quake. there is no looting , riots…
    look at china after disaster. what happend?
    that is why Japan denys..
    and there is no evidence at all. chech our how forigner got panic?
    that was lie….

    shinto has many god. you shoudl whatch these video agaim
    shinto means “way of god”

  46. hoihoi Says:

    most Japanese believe the exsistence of god.
    this is not western god like jesus or bible’s god

  47. Michael Eden Says:

    I provided evidence that your claim is untrue re: most Japanese believing the existence of God.

    You are in fact clearly baiting and switching yourself: you use the word “god” instead of “God.” The two terms are fundamentally incompatible with one another, if not mutually exclusive.

    The fact remains that those who survey religious beliefs around the world have correctly concluded for years that Japan is one of the most atheistic countries in the world.

    Further, you speak of the lack of looting and riots. And I agree with you that up to this point, Japan has been quite admiral in that regard. That said, it is merely an aspect of the same culture that produced the rape of Nanking, the Bataan death march, the suicidal Banzai charges and the Kamikaze pilots. The same type of people who will murder women, children and helpless prisoners when told to do so, who will fix bayonets and charge by the tens of thousands when told to do so, who will load airplanes with explosives and then crash them into ships when told to do so, will similarly avoid rioting and looting when told to do so.

    Would a samurai riot and loot? Or would he commit hari-kari when told to do so? The fact is that he would cut off my head, and a woman and child’s head, and then cut off his own.

    You are merely looking at the flip side of an ugly thing and finding it beautiful.

  48. hoihoi Says:

    bring the evedence…
    i wonder you are still believing the Materialist, that is commies propaganda? LOL

    War Damage in the Nanking area Dec. 1937 to Mar. 1938

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/War_Damage_in_the_Nanking_area_Dec._1937_to_Mar._1938

    by the way
    Do you know “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion”? This book was fabricated “Fiction” for the purpose of arousing anti-Semitic among Russian people by the secret police of the Russian Empire in 1905. This book made Jew’s plot theory “The Jew is plotting the world domination” known to European society. Though numerous independent investigations have repeatedly proven it to be a plagiarism and a hoax, many European people believed the rumor “The Jew is plotting the world domination”.

    The Protocols also became a part of the Nazi propaganda effort to justify persecution of the Jews. Hitler said, “Whether this book is true is not important. The existence of this book is very important.” Hitler used the Protocols as a manual in his war to exterminate the Jews. As a result, the largest-ever tragedy occurred.

    Ted Leonsis who produced Film “Nanking” repeats the same words, “Rape of Nanking is Forgotten Holocaust. Though Japan invaded China, raped women and murdered 200,000 Chinese, Japan never admits this war crime and Japan never apologize to China.” Ted Leonsis’ words are the completely same as Chinese government’s statement. And yet, he excuses as follows,”This documentary film is not an anti-Japan film but an anti-war film.” I don’t think so. The purpose of Film “Nanking” is to impress upon people in the world for how Japanese are cruel and barbarous. Ted leonsis is the person who scatters “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” to the world. The exclusive nationalism gains power all over the world. I worry about the misfortune that will happen to all Japanese in the future. We Japanese must fight against “Rumormonger” Ted Leonsis now.

    …>>You are in fact clearly baiting and switching yourself: you use the word “god” instead of “God.” The two terms are fundamentally incompatible with one another, if not mutually exclusive>>

    whatever.. it is nothing to do with Atheist

    Christianity’s is God is one fo God’s in Japan
    we welcome…

  49. Michael Eden Says:

    bring the evedence…

    Hoihoi,

    How to politely say this? Heck with it.

    Um, dumbass. I DID bring the evidence. The chart that I provide at the very beginning of my article came right out of a major study (page 14).

    Do you just not mind being totally wrong about everything???

    Yes, the Rape of Nanking. You should learn about it. The Japanese raped and murdered 300,000 helpless women, children and unarmed and already surrendered prisoners.

    “The elimination of the Chinese POWs began after they were transported by trucks to remote locations on the outskirts of Nanking. As soon as they were assembled, the savagery began, with young Japanese soldiers encouraged by their superiors to inflict maximum pain and suffering upon individual POWs as a way of toughening themselves up for future battles, and also to eradicate any civilized notions of mercy. Filmed footage and still photographs taken by the Japanese themselves document the brutality. Smiling soldiers can be seen conducting bayonet practice on live prisoners, decapitating them and displaying severed heads as souvenirs, and proudly standing among mutilated corpses. Some of the Chinese POWs were simply mowed down by machine-gun fire while others were tied-up, soaked with gasoline and burned alive.

    One of the last humans left alive after intense bombing during the Japanese attack on Shanghai’s South Station. August 1937.

    After the destruction of the POWs, the soldiers turned their attention to the women of Nanking and an outright animalistic hunt ensued. Old women over the age of 70 as well as little girls under the age of 8 were dragged off to be sexually abused. More than 20,000 females (with some estimates as high as 80,000) were gang-raped by Japanese soldiers, then stabbed to death with bayonets or shot so they could never bear witness.

    Pregnant women were not spared. In several instances, they were raped, then had their bellies slit open and the fetuses torn out. Sometimes, after storming into a house and encountering a whole family, the Japanese forced Chinese men to rape their own daughters, sons to rape their mothers, and brothers their sisters, while the rest of the family was made to watch.

    Throughout the city of Nanking, random acts of murder occurred as soldiers frequently fired their rifles into panicked crowds of civilians, killing indiscriminately. Other soldiers killed shopkeepers, looted their stores, then set the buildings on fire after locking people of all ages inside. They took pleasure in the extraordinary suffering that ensued as the people desperately tried to escape the flames by climbing onto rooftops or leaping down onto the street.

    The incredible carnage – citywide burnings, stabbings, drownings, strangulations, rapes, thefts, and massive property destruction – continued unabated for about six weeks, from mid-December 1937 through the beginning of February 1938. Young or old, male or female, anyone could be shot on a whim by any Japanese soldier for any reason. Corpses could be seen everywhere throughout the city. The streets of Nanking were said to literally have run red with blood.

    Those who were not killed on the spot were taken to the outskirts of the city and forced to dig their own graves, large rectangular pits that would be filled with decapitated corpses resulting from killing contests the Japanese held among themselves. Other times, the Japanese forced the Chinese to bury each other alive in the dirt.”

    I am very close to blocking you. I block haters. And to compare a terrible and evil fact of history to something as false and vile as “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” is hateful.

  50. Michael Eden Says:

    There’s a line from the Clint Eastwood movie “Unforgiven.”

    “The Kid” says to Munny (Eastwood) about one of the men they’d killed: “He had it coming, right?”

    And Munny says, “We’ve all got it coming, kid.”

    And that is the bottom line reality.

    This isn’t about how “bad” Japan is; we ALL deserve death. We’ve all got it coming.

    But we all – and by this I even mean anyone who believes in fate, let alone God – want the “other guy” to get his. I know that every atheist out there has thought he was wronged, and that the person who wronged him should pay for what he did. But apart from the pure grace of God, we’re ALL going to get ours.

    You think it ends with a long dirt nap? Then you are a moral idiot.

    We were made for justice. Virtually every human being on earth yearns for it. And the only people who don’t are mentally diseased sociopaths.

    “Justice” doesn’t let a Hitler or a Stalin just take a dirt nap. Some of the most vile mass murderers in history died very comfortable deaths, having never paid on this earth for their crimes. There has to be something more, or there IS no justice.

    I believe that there is ultimate justice. We will all one day get that which is coming to us.

    And as the book of Ecclesiastes 3:11 says, “God has set eternity in our hearts.” We, the only creatures on earth who were created in God’s image, are also the only creatures on earth who can imagine life after the death of our bodies.

    If the atheists are right, and life after death is impossible, then it would amount to a category fallacy to do that. It would be tantamount to imagining a square circle. You couldn’t possibly do it.

    But I can do it. And I warrant you can too.

    And we’ve all got it coming.

    And the only way to avoid the wages of sin – the death that is literally due us – is through what Jesus endured for our sakes on the cross.

    He died in your place. He took the blame. And then He rose again.

    I shall rise with Him. And the reason I will do so has nothing to do with how good I am; it only has to do with my accepting Jesus and the eternal gift of His life. God doesn’t want you to go to hell; but He doesn’t want to force you into heaven, either. It’s your decision. It is the most important decision you can ever make. And not welcoming Christ into your life is the same as keeping Him out.

    Where will you go when your time comes?

    I’m going with Jesus.

  51. Rojas Says:

    I wonder if the fact that Japan is an island in the Pacific and in a geologically active region had anything to do with it…

  52. Michael Eden Says:

    Rojas,

    Do you see anywhere in my article or anywhere else where anyone ever denied that, or do you just like to state things that a three-year old knows and then think yourself wise for having said it???

  53. Rafa Says:

    Everyone thinks China is evil…but no one brings to the fact that it was largely due to the Japanese invasion that China is communist today. Even China has more Christians than Japan, whose culture has been overrun by unnatural sexual perversion and deviants as well as terrible violence.

  54. Michael Eden Says:

    As I understand it, China actually has more Christians than the United States. And in the next twenty years or so, China will have more Christians than America has Americans.

    Many Russian intellectuals became quite religious as a result of watching the total failure of communism, along with the persecution of intellectuals, with their very own eyes. I wouldn’t be too surprised if the same thing is happening in China, as communism has utterly failed there, too.

    Today, China is no longer really “communist.” It is far more “national socialist” (i.e. fascist) than communist. Another name for it would be state socialism, or state capitalism.

    In the sense that Japan has never really faced up to a genuinely evil past (the way Germans largely did), I can’t disagree with what you’re saying.

  55. Jazz Says:

    Wow, you actually think China has more Christians? If you are going to post outlandish remarks like that, please cite a source. It will make your argument that more convincing.

    As for your whole blog: Being a Christian I take offense to this! To assume that God would be responsible for killing mass amount of people just because they are not believers is absurd. It sounds like you are talking about the God of the Old Testament! Should we build a boat? Christ died on the cross so that ALL may be forgiven. Those who turn away from him will suffer on judgment day. Not right now!

  56. Michael Eden Says:

    Jazz,

    You obviously didn’t bother to read the article that you are attacking, or you wouldn’t make such an incredibly stupid denunciation of it. “Being a Christian,” I take offense at your bearing false witness against me in accusing me of saying that God killed the people in Japan. Please care enough about the truth to READ the thing you are attacking before you attack it.

    I’m not sure what you’re talking about in the “China” thing. I didn’t say that in my article, and I make far too many comments to try to keep track of.

    Here is a source for what I am saying: What’s So Great About Christianity, by Dinesh D’Souza, page 9;

    “Despite the limitations imposed by the Chinese government, it is estimated that there are now 100 million Christians in China who worship in underground evangelical and Catholic churches. At current growth rates, David Aikman observes in his book Jesus in Beijing, China will in a few decades become the largest Christian country in the world.”

    Somewhere in the same book D’Souza states that there will be more Christians in China than in America soon, and more Christians in America than there are Americans in fifty years. But I don’t have time to look for it.

    Here is an article that talks about the number of Christians in China.

    Your last thoughts do not represent orthodox Christianity, in that you utterly repudiate that God is at work in the world today. God DOES judge the nations; that is a biblical fact. My point in the article was simply that WE CAN’T KNOW the mind of God.

    But YOU seem to think that you CAN; which merely makes you the inverse of the people who claim that God DID send that tsunami (which you also falsely accused me of doing).

  57. Anonymous Says:

    My point its very straight forward, that is pictures and video footage’s can tell thousand words. which was widely known as Unit 731 – Japan’s Secret Human Medical & Biological Experiments.

    Here’s a link down below that’s for anyone who’s interested in what the Japanese have done in the past, and be the judge themselves.

    http://brainmind.com/Unit731.html

    I personally believe that they got what they have deserved, good on you GOD, the tsunami have finally bought some justice to all the ordinary innocent people that the Japanese have killed/mistreated during the second world war.

  58. Michael Eden Says:

    Anonymous,

    I didn’t go to your link, but I DO know some of the things that Unit 731 did to living and unmedicated human beings. Live vivisections on screaming people, for example. Just to see how long they’d last. Supposedly for some military benefit.

    I most certainly would have agreed with you that circa 1945, we had every right to simply keep dropping atomic bombs until every single Japanese was dead. That’s not to say that we would not ourselves have been evil for doing that; but Japan had that coming. They were THAT vicious and that evil.

    That said, Jesus had a point about the falling of the tower of Siloam in Luke 13:1-9. It was stated by Clint Eastwood’s character in “Unforgiven” when the nearsighted partner asked him, “They had it coming,right?” And he said, “We’ve all got it coming, kid.”

    The point is that we’re ALL sinners. We ALL deserve to die.

    In the face of a completely righteous, completely morally perfect God, we’ve ALL got it coming. From there, it is merely a question of degree.

    One day, every human being WILL get what is coming to him or to her. And that is hell. We were created with souls that will live forever; that is part of what is called the Imago Dei (image of God).

    God is just, and God is loving. And both attributes are perfectly balanced.

    Thus God demands justice and payment for sin. And thus God so loved the world that He took the blame upon Himself and paid the price on our behalf so that any who put their trust in Jesus Christ and HIS righteousness can have new life in Him and through Him forever and ever.

    ANYONE can come to Jesus and have His life in them through faith. Even a former member of Unit 731 who falls on his face, confesses his evil and freely begs for forgiveness.

    And if God will forgive even them, the one beautiful thing about that is that He will forgive you too.

  59. Anonymous Says:

    Japan was hit by a tsunami because it is in a geologically active area… remember 8th-Grade Geology? The crust of the earth sits upon molten rock that is constantly moving. The rock (crust) breaks apart every once in a while and moves a little. We call that movement an earthquake. If an eathquake happens under the ocean, it sloshes the water around producing waves. Very large waves are called tsunamis.

    So, to answer the writer’s question: “is Japan’s unbelief the reason why Japan just got hit with an awful tsunami?” No.

  60. Michael Eden Says:

    Anonymous,

    Just wanted to say thanks for contributing NOTHING.

    I mean, hey, guess what: if I assume atheism and naturalism, you wouldn’t believe it, but I’ll end up concluding that it’s not even POSSIBLE that God had anything to do with anything. And, of course, it’s not even POSSIBLE that God created the earth, the crust of the earth, the molten rock, or anything else. And of course therefore it’s not even POSSIBLE that God could have sovereign control over anything.

    What an amazingly brilliant person you must be in your infinite knowledge of the cosmos. How vast must be your knowledge of all things that were, or are, or ever will be. How magnificent your comprehension of all things that have taken place in all of the hundreds of billions of galaxies that you so confidently know that God can and must be ruled out as a source or cause of ANYTHING.

    I bet your momma is so darned proud of you.

  61. jeremiah Says:

    Humans will never understand the nature of GOD…
    Unless you seek him/her with all your heart..

  62. Michael Eden Says:

    Jeremiah,

    At the same time, God is waiting for any seeking of light to give us still MORE light to find Him. He who made us in His image gave us the capacity to not only seek Him, but find Him.

  63. Anonymous Says:

    Japan isn’t Atheist dip-shit their religion is just misunderstood their actually one of the most religious countries.
    Japanese religion is Shinto and Buddhist.

  64. Michael Eden Says:

    Anonymous,

    Hey there, you vile slug.

    I guess you understand world religions better than the experts who studied them. Those aren’t my stats, you know, moron.

    Second, Buddhism is properly understood as atheistic. There is no God in Buddhism.

    But hey, all I’ve got is facts from experts in the field. And you’ve got your own exalted dumbass opinions. What chance do I really have in an argument with you???

  65. asdfadfa Says:

    dumb bitch

  66. Michael Eden Says:

    asdfadfa,

    banned dumbass

  67. Anonymous Says:

    To many idiots inside…-.-I though God was suposed to be all good and all that stuff and yet he aint?…Don’t get me wrrong I aint even an atheist.Honestly I don’t give much of a [deleted by moderator for profanity] even if there is or there isn’t a God out there…But honestly I usualy stand with the atheist on some points.Since the arguments u religious ppl bring up…Actualy make no sense have no evidence and yet u claim they do. Now seriously if this God u talk about is proven to exist…I wouldn’t worship him…He is evil…He is not good.If you and your God belive nonreligion is a crime…Then u both are retards.
    I did prefer to see this so called “God” kill the pedos,rapist,Murrderes(The one that do it for no reason,I don’t belive killing is necesarly evil at some point its necesarly…But not for retarded reasons like “Nonreligions” Atheism…Whatever the [deleted by moderator for profanity] u wanna call it…
    Sorry for my bad eng…But I hope I made my point of view clear to others…

  68. Michael Eden Says:

    Anonymous,

    You’re not an atheist, but you don’t think God exists and believe God is evil even if He did exist?

    Um, I don’t know how to tell you this: you’re an atheist. A particularly dumb atheist, yes, but an atheist.

    For the official record, God does not send people to hell for being “non-religious.” The innocent pagan who never sinned even once, who never violated his or her conscience even one single time in life, will go to heaven.

    The problem is, as the Bible accurately states it, is that “for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”

    This “evil God” of yours created man in His own moral image and gave mankind everything. When mankind rebelled and sinned, this evil God of yours – the very God who created man in His own image – assumed that image Himself and lived a perfect, sinless life for our sakes. And then He endured one of the most vicious and painful deaths ever recorded to take the sin of sinners on His shoulders and take the blame in our place. And die for us in order to satisfy moral justice – that sinners who were created in the moral image of God but despise that image should die. This evil God of yours never wanted you or any other human being or even demon to go to hell. He gave you a way out – through Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the cross.

    You find Him “evil”; I find Him to be my loving Savior. And I thank Him every single day for dying in my place so that I could experience eternal life through Him.

  69. Anonymous Says:

    Huh, it has nothing to do with the fact that Japan is located on the most active tectonic boundary system in the world, right? Its just because they are atheist.

  70. JD Stockman Says:

    So we should assume the most religiously indoctrinated part of America is pissing God off considering how many tornadoes run over the religious south, right? According to you, it is no coincidence that the “bible belt” and “tornado alley” are one in the same.

  71. gracepressure Says:

    This is logically idiotic.

  72. Michael Eden Says:

    Anonymous,

    It’s unfortunate that there are a lot of people out there – yourself included – who don’t either READ or THINK before you comment.

    If you had bothered to actually read this article before deciding to post your smarmy comment, you would have very quickly come to passages such as this one in which I ask and answer:

    But is Japan’s unbelief the reason why Japan just got hit with an awful tsunami?

    My answer is, “How on earth should I know?”

    Ignorance is bliss, some say – except for the people around the ignorant who have to deal with them.

  73. Michael Eden Says:

    This is logically idiotic.

    gracepressure,

    I’ll give you an example of something that is “logically idiotic”: a person who makes such a sweeping assertion without having so much as a SINGLE REASON to offer as to what is “illogical” or “idiotic” about what I wrote.

    I never waste time on people like you other than to explain why I blocked you as being utterly useless to any kind of intelligent discussion whatsoever.

  74. Michael Eden Says:

    JD Stockman,

    If you had had the intelligence to understand my article or simply possessed the basic courtesty to bother to read it before offering comment, you would have seen that I actually do NOT claim that the tsunami was some act of divine wrath.

    In my VERY FIRST WORDS, I say:

    That headline is a deliberate provoker. But please let me explain why I used that headline before you erupt one way or another.

    But you didn’t bother to read or think; you just erupted irrationally.

    Let’s just say that the title was an intelligence test, and you failed very, very miserably.

  75. JD Stockman Says:

    My bad… it was the first thing I woke up to. LOL

    I’ll take my licks on this one. :P

    I do apologize. :D

  76. JD Stockman Says:

    My statement stands: minus the “according to you” part. heh

  77. Michael Eden Says:

    JD Stockman,

    I appreciate the apology. Such gracious acknowledgment is rare from opponents on this blog, believe me. It is very much to your credit that you have the capacity to admit “My bad.”

    Jesus said that the rain falls on both the good and the wicked alike (Matthew 5:45).

    When the Tower of Siloam fell on a crowd, Jesus pointed out that in essence we ALL “have it coming” and that death can come for anyone at anytime; so be prepared to face it (Luke 13:4).

    Both of the above points were entirely in line with what I was arguing in this article. The universe is not random, but we finite limited beings cannot comprehend “the unified theory” that explains all of reality no matter how we try.

    There are religious people including Christians who try to force reality into a little box that they can understand. Which, for what it’s worth, is exactly what many atheists try to do in “explaing” reality in an artificial way that THEY can understand. I am one that embraces the fact that this universe is far more complex and complicated than I can possibly understand – especially when it comes to the issue of divine retribution. I try to thank God for my good fortune and trust Him through those hard times that befall me all the while believing that God will ultimately bless me in eternity.

  78. JD Stockman Says:

    Most thinking atheists are not as assumptive. The only thing we do assume is that there is a reason for everything despite it not being within our grasp. We chose to not assert that there is a supernatural response however, because all evidence before this point contradicts that possibility.

  79. Michael Eden Says:

    If you look over the many comments I’ve received from atheists, you will find that “most atheists were every bit as assumptive” as YOU were. They REFUSED to consider my article by actually bothering to read it and instead MADE ASSUMPTIONS and attacked me on the basis of those assumptions.

    Atheists won’t even debate scientists who hold to Intelligent Design because they get their heads handed to them. Here’s another example of that. And here’s one in which Richard Dawkins said that William Lane Craig was “not worthy” to debate him. Having seen Craig debate, I can assure you that the unworthiness was very much on Dawkins rather than on Craig.

    Your argument also falls massively on its face into a dilemma raised by Gleason Archer:

    But it should be pointed out that consistent atheism, which represents itself to be the most rational and logical of all approaches to reality, is in actuality completely self defeating and incapable of logical defense. That is to say, if indeed all matter has combined by mere chance, unguided by any Higher Power of Transcendental Intelligence, then it necessarily follows that the molecules of the human brain are also the product of mere chance. In other words, we think the way we do simply because the atoms and molecules of our brain tissue happen to have combined in the way they have, totally without transcendental guidance or control. So then even the philosophies of men, their system of logic and all their approaches to reality are the result of mere fortuity. There is no absolute validity to any argument advanced by the atheist against the position of theism.

    On the basis of his won presuppositions, the atheist completely cancels himself out, for on his own premises his arguments are without any absolute validity. By his own confession he thinks the way he does simply because the atoms in his brain happen to combine the way they do. If this is so, he cannot honestly say that his view is any more valid than the contrary view of his opponent. His basic postulates are self contradictory and self defeating; for when he asserts that there are no absolutes, he thereby is asserting a very dogmatic absolute. Nor can he logically disprove the existence of God without resorting to a logic that depends on the existence of God for its validity. Apart from such a transcendent guarantor of the validity of logic, any attempts at logic or argumentation are simply manifestations of the behavior of the collocation of molecules that make up the thinker’s brain.

    Or should I simply point out that MY brain was the product of an intelligent designer and is fearfully and wonderfully made, whereas YOUR brain is the random agglomeration of molecules that happened to come together for no particular reason and I therefore trust my opinions a lot more than I trust yours.

    Here are a couple of articles on theism and science, one by me and one by a mathematician:

    http://constitutionclub.org/2011/09/28/why-atheists-make-the-worst-scientists/

    http://startthinkingright.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/why-pseudo-scientific-atheists-are-wrong-about-the-essence-of-science/

  80. Anonymous Says:

    psalm 14:1 A psalm of David. Only fools say in their hearts, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good! ” ATHEISM “

  81. JD Stockman Says:

    Okay… I’m dying to know: what wisdom does a book that originated when an off-shoot version of a Hebrew god of war, Yahweh (you know, back when they were still classified as pagans); and El Shaddai, god of the mountain got remodeled into a new incarnation that was actually constructed by three men: Isaiah, Amos, and Hosaiah. They doctored up a new Yahweh into something a little less murderous. That is, until Deuteronomy what conveniently found , a book that rejected the concept of other gods being allowed to exist. New flavor from the now book was layered into the old books.
    Baal and Asherah (other gods worships in addition to Yahweh) were subsequently written out of the texts under this new version and their portfolios were written into Yahweh’s. This would also be what some might believe to be the beginning of the Holy War. No other god was allowed worship under this new rule and doing so resulted in war being waged against those people. Bloody War God, Yahweh makes his triumphant return.
    Then Babylon moved in and exiled the Hebrews. They blamed themselves for not strictly following Yahweh, and so the reoccurring theme of being a sinner that always needs to prove yourself to God makes an appearance.
    Then another change is made to the bible, finally rewriting that pesky “multiple gods” issue into the monotheistic state it has today. But that didn’t happen until a couple of centuries after Yahweh was rewritten several times since he came out of the Israeli polytheistic pantheon. Leviticus is created.
    The creation story is a knock off of the Enuma Elish, which predates the Old Testament by over 1000 years and was tacked to the new modifications as their creation story too. A very flat Earth in a bubble… something seems neglectful about God not mentioning “By the way, you live on a ball of water and mud and it circles a great ball of fire.” Not entirely a difficult concept to explain once you get past the whole “man made from mud” and “woman made from rib” part as well as “there is a pit of fire to torture you for eternity if you mess up in the spans of about 50-100 years.”
    Old Mesopotamian myths got layered in for tricks and show put on by the now “one true God”. So… officially, God was invented about 2600 years ago, and the write up was finished 1600 years ago.
    Constantine wanted to unify Rome under one religion instead of the hundreds of religions that existed in his time, so he consolidated all the worships and began editing them together. Once again, in the New Testament (then called the Testimonies) absorbed more pagan practices. But in order to codify the new version, a fresh new champion needed to be created. Enter Jesus. Great guy. Charismatic. Only one problem: he was Buddhist, which is why most of his core teachings not only contradicted the direction the original text but also are rarely repeated throughout the bible. But the common people loved it. So additional ideas and events were layered in yet again and the Torah was shuffled around to make Jesus look like the son of David and a fancy birth story was written up placing him in Bethlehem in order to complete the connection to the prophesy that had to be shuffled forward in the Torah.
    So lets look at this from two perspectives without actually using this a fore mentions “History of the Bible”. You mean the all knowing, all powerful, all perfect God changed his mind from Old to New Testaments? Not a real confidence builder. Lets then look at the Torah verses the Bible. The Torah actually predates the existence of the Bible by 1000 years give or take. Why did it need to be shuffled around and thus changing the ‘perfect word’ of God?
    But lets just move past all of that. Lets pretend that none of that evidence was brought up. Explain how Göbekli Tepe exists. It is about 7000 years older than the pyramids and about 1000-3000 years older than the reported beginning of creation. How would a temple/village be older than creation I wonder?
    But that’s too easy… lets talk about how religion has actually been around for some 100,000 years. God must have been sleeping on the job or jacks someone else’s idea because religion got started long before his invention. Burial practices gave away to animal cults. Animal cults evolved into a primitive kind of spiritualism. Then came the worship of women. That slowly evolved into shamanism. Shamanism combined with the spiritualism gave away to ancestral worship. Over time, since this was mostly before written language, ancestral worship turned into the worship of a higher power, while in other places, Venus worship evolved into worship of “Mother Earth”. Perhaps you could account for what all these other gods appeared before yours?
    But, again, perhaps you are a moderate Christian and somehow believe some of the Bible is just a suggestion or a nice story to learn from inspired by God. God created man and continued to feel creative when he spoke to man. Okay. So the millions of minor nuances that got us to where we are today are fictional? We have a fossil record that shows the ebbing effect of evolution on us. On the world. On technology. And yes, on the constant rewrites that occurs in religion to attempt to account for all the things reality contradicts as it is understood. Everything evolves.
    But perhaps you are even looser from the Holy Text than that and go for that “Intelligent Design” gimmick. Before I crush that nonsense… provided that you are an extremely moderate Christian… why? Why still believe if you aren’t even going to accept the Bible as fact? If you do accept the Bible as fact, what happens when you sail off the edge of the Earth? Why do you approve sexual sacrifice of women for divinity? What good is slavery? What lesson is there in cursing dozens of chidren to death for mocking you? What it the divine purpose of slaying 200 men to collect their foreskins to overpay for the purchase of a new wife? How do you fit the Earth’s creatures onto a boat that barely covers a football field?
    I actually have much more to say… but really. Look at this.

    Oh… forgot to refute intelligent design: there is so many things we are not best at it isn’t even funny. We don’t have the best vision. We don’t have the longest life span. We have countless needs that overshoot efficient. We need tons of maintenance. We are codependent on each other to reproduce. We breath out of the same hole we eat from, which is a hell of a choking hazard. We fertilize new life out of the same hole we empty toxins from, and that is next to our solid waste expulsion… again, I could go on.
    Here is the thing… you say these people won’t debate? You obviously don’t look into it much and do much of the same thing you were accusing me of: assume too much. The fact of the matter is all of the great atheist thinkers: Dennet, Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, etc. HAVE debated creationist. Dozens of times. It’s the same broken record. The want to claim creation was made by God. They bring no proof beyond a dusty tome that really isn’t that old in terms of deities and say that’s the proof. You don’t prove something just by stating it. There is no evidence that I didn’t mostly obliterate in this post. Yet all of these atheist thinkers can, will and do produce proof after proof after proof. Constantly piling up evidence. I hadn’t even gotten into chemistry and abiogenesis. The reason YOU might not see a the people debating is you chose not to. It is upsetting that I came on here fired up, then, on the terms of you being completely overlooked I apologized and attempted to even forge common ground for a peaceful debate. But you popped off and ran your mouth in your arrogant judgmental christian way… and basically turned back to insult me after accepting my apology. That means you lied. You were not sorry. You are not genuine. And you will play poor victim to the minority just to get the upper hand. Atheists are the most distrusted and hated minority in America and yet I see you enjoying our technological advancements, our medical break through and our great new inventions. You will never here me whine about being bashed… I bash back. You complain that atheists don’t give you the time of day? I just gave you several house. In short, you claim an invisible force made all this but never shows, that this is not entirely scientific provable. Prove one thing… not present something that no one can prove like what started the big bang or whatever you equate it to; prove one thing that God has done with absolute certainty. Prove one.

  82. Michael Eden Says:

    JD Stockman,

    For the record, I’ll go ahead right here and announce that I’m going to block you, and here’s why: remember my last comment and the challenges I offered you? Remember that Gleason Archer quote on how on your very own view you’re fundamentally irrational and incapable of reason? Apparently not, because you simply ignored it. You don’t even wave your hand in faint allusion to it. I simply don’t waste my time on people who are not capable of responding to what I say. Because why argue with someone who doesn’t bother to even try to interact with your points????

    But since I always interact with the people I block to deal with their last point, I’ll continue:

    Wow, you couldn’t have espoused the German theology that fed right into Nazism much better. Congratulations for postulating that the Bible was nothing more than a Jewish lie. From Friedrich Schleiermacher’s to Friedrich Nietzsche’s to Julian Wellhausen’s to Friedrich Delitzsche’s to Martin Heidegger’s lips to your ears. Wonderful dissertation of the Nazis’ take on Christianity. Congratulations, you’re an Übermensch.

    Nietzsche had written, “Christianty, sprung from Jewish roots and comprehensible only as a growth on this soil, represents the counter-movement to any morality of breeding, of race, of privilege: it is the anti-Aryan religion par excellence.”

    But Delitzsh took the proto-Nazism to the next logical step, holding that the Old Testament was a “very dangerous book” because it was Jewish. He procedeed to literally try to argue (the very Nazi argument) that Jesus was not Jewish, fabricating a bogus “scholarly” distinction between Jews and Galileans that just like all the other crap you assert had never existed before until it began to become convenient for the Germans to invent it. Continuing his convenient “scholarship,” Delitzsch claimed that he could find no bridge between the Old Testament and Jesus’ mentality and thus fabricated a Christianity that was an absolutely new religion totally distinct from the Old Testament.

    Hannah Arendt observed that the heart of Nazism was anti-Jewishness. Because the fascist hatred of the Jews was not merely because of their race but because of their ideas and worldview. Their goal was to exterminate the Jews from Western Civilization. The Hebraic heritage was mediated in the West exclusively by the Bible. The Nazi project was to purge that influence once for all.

    Further, fascism has been defined as “the practical an violent resistance to transcendance” by the leading expert on fascism, Ernst Nolte. By asserting the existence of only one transcendent God, so the Nazi argument went, the Jews drained the immanent world of its spiritual significance. The rich polytheism of the ancient pagan world, in which nature was permeated by spiritual beings, was banished. Jewish monotheism led to the decline of mythological consciousness, in which religion, nature, and the community were unified. Fascism sought to restore the values of primitive cultures, with their social solidarity, oneness with nature, and psychic integration. The iconoclasm, antipaganism, and moralism of the Judeo-Christian tradition had to be eradicated so that a more holistic spirituality could emerge.

    Nazi propgagandist Ezra Pound demonized the Jews for their “code worship” and accused the Jews of following rigid laws and formal procedures and a categorical set of moral standards much unlike the Greeks. And thus Jewish monotheism severed man from Nature, and Jewish categorical morality severed man from his natural impulses, making Jduaism the religion par excellence of punishment and repression.

    Ezra Pound complained that monotheism worked against the idea that truth and moral values were relative. He stated that whereas polytheistic cultures were relative, Jewish monotheism asserted one universal truth for everyone. He blamed the Jewish monotheism for the West’s intolerance, monopoly and uniformity.

    Hitler would argue in his Mein Kampf:

    The objection may very well be raised that such phenomena in world history [i.e., the need for intolerance] arise for the most part from specifically Jewish modes of thought, in fact, that this type of intolerance and fanaticism positively embodies the Jewish nature. This may be a thousand times true; we may deeply regret this fact and establish with justifiable loathing that its appearance in the history of mankind is something that was previously alien to history – yet this does not alter the fact that this condition is with us today.

    Which is to say that the Jews with their monotheism and their absolute morality invented intolerance; and therefore, not only should they not be tolerated, but ultimately they literally needed to be exterminated.

    And so proto-Nazis began a prolonged campaign to delegitimize Judaism by delegitimizing the Bible. And they created myths and pseudo-scholarshp motivated entirely by hatred and bias to argue that the Bible was a bunch of myths.

    Here’s another development of what I argue above: http://www.bedfordgaol.com/part3-4.html

    I simply will not allow Nazi thought to be seriously entertained on this blog. And that is precisely what the crap you just posted is. If you want to believe what the proto-Nazis believed, i.e. the crap that led to justifying the Holocaust, fine. But you won’t bring it here.

    It’s also interesting what hypocrites people like you are: as much as you adore evolution and believe that simpler and more primitive things evolved into more complicated and superior things, the moment you get to human religion you just dump it all out the door and believe in “devolution” instead. On the view of evolutionary development Jewish monotheism would be a GOOD thing, but you simply can’t be intellectually consistent without refuting yourself. You’re so willing to contradict yourselves when its convenient for you it’s unreal.

    Finally, you reveal that you are truly and rather astonishingly ignorant of “Intelligent Design,” choosing to lump it into the category of young-earth creationism rather than deal with it honestly.

    What is Intelligent Design? It is, very simply the observation that the universe and life and earth reveal so many elements of complex design and extreme fine-tuning that it could not all have been merely random (i.e., there was this big explosion and everything just fell into place and lo and behold somehow that explosion fabricated a whole bunch of complicated parts and assembled them into a perfectly functioning Boeing 777).

    Here is one example I quickly found.

    Here are some examples of the fine-tuning of the universe that Intelligent Design scientists (as in with PhDs) point to. Here’s another.

    One example of intelligent design is the human brain itself. I cited Gleason Archer’s argument:

    But it should be pointed out that consistent atheism, which represents itself to be the most rational and logical of all approaches to reality, is in actuality completely self defeating and incapable of logical defense. That is to say, if indeed all matter has combined by mere chance, unguided by any Higher Power of Transcendental Intelligence, then it necessarily follows that the molecules of the human brain are also the product of mere chance. In other words, we think the way we do simply because the atoms and molecules of our brain tissue happen to have combined in the way they have, totally without transcendental guidance or control. So then even the philosophies of men, their system of logic and all their approaches to reality are the result of mere fortuity. There is no absolute validity to any argument advanced by the atheist against the position of theism.

    On the basis of his won presuppositions, the atheist completely cancels himself out, for on his own premises his arguments are without any absolute validity. By his own confession he thinks the way he does simply because the atoms in his brain happen to combine the way they do. If this is so, he cannot honestly say that his view is any more valid than the contrary view of his opponent. His basic postulates are self contradictory and self defeating; for when he asserts that there are no absolutes, he thereby is asserting a very dogmatic absolute. Nor can he logically disprove the existence of God without resorting to a logic that depends on the existence of God for its validity. Apart from such a transcendent guarantor of the validity of logic, any attempts at logic or argumentation are simply manifestations of the behavior of the collocation of molecules that make up the thinker’s brain.

    And then pointed out that:

    MY brain was the product of an intelligent designer and is fearfully and wonderfully made, whereas YOUR brain is the random agglomeration of molecules that happened to come together for no particular reason and I therefore trust my opinions a lot more than I trust yours.

    And you were clearly completely unable to respond to just ONE argument from Intelligent Design.

    And like I said, I don’t bother to try to have arguments with people who refuse to respond to my points. I would just assume have an argument with the cockroach who I occasinally find scurrying under my oven when I turn on the light. So begone.

    P.S. When you start whining about “But you popped off and ran your mouth in your arrogant judgmental christian way… and basically turned back to insult me after accepting my apology” I couldn’t help but laugh. Because after your smarmy lecture on how “most thinking atheists” don’t jump to assumptions and whatnot, it was all too easy to PROVE that you weren’t “thinking” on your very own presentation given your OWN assumptive thinking. And further, this very article and all the atheists who have been guilty of the selfsame “assumptive” thinking and simple REFUSAL TO INTERACT with what I actually said merely provided further factual proof. And why should it not suprise me that you are offended by THE SIMPLE TRUTH??? Further, there is more: you decry me for my “judgmental christian way” WHEN YOU JUDGED ME SOMETHING FIERCE IN YOUR VERY FIRST COMMENT AND DIDN’T EVEN HAVE A SCINTILLA OF TRUTH TO JUSTIFY IT!!! But why let a little thing like hypocrisy get in the way of your argument???

    As a P.P.S., allow me to mock your atheism for a moment and pose a question for ALL atheists: right now, modern physics is in a state of crisis over new information about black holes such that what was widely believed and accepted can’t possibly be true in light of the actual evidence. But that is really nothing new: science is literally unable to account for 96 percent of the universe. Any legitimate scientist would be humbled by that.

    And it is that humility of legitimate science that prompted Robert Jastrow to write:

    For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries. -Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers

    Which is all to point out that you, in your incredible arrogance and your incredible ignorance, have nothing whatsoever to do with any form of legitimate science whatsoever. And if you had any common sense in your soul whatsoever, you would consider that 96 percent of the universe that is totally beyond your understanding and it would occur to you that God could very much be very present indeed.

  83. jackcent84@yahoo.com Says:

    Some Bible Verses that say
    “Jesus is God”
    Some people claim to believe that Jesus was a “good prophet”, but they deny that Jesus is God. If that is you, I would like to encourage you to consider some of these Bible verses:

    ——————————————————————————–
    Matthew 1:23 – “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

    Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Isaiah 43:10,11 – “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, “And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no Savior.”
    Revelation 1:17-18; Revelation 2:8 – (Jesus is the First and the Last)

    Isaiah 44:6 – (God is the Redeemer)
    2 Peter 1:1 (Jesus is the Redeemer) – “To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ”

    Isaiah 44:24 – (God created the world by His self alone)
    John 1:3; Colossians 1:16 – (Jesus made all things)

    John 1:1 – In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… 1:14 – And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,

    John 5:17,18 – “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

    John 5:23 – that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

    John 8:24 – “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.”

    John 8:58 – Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

    John 10:30-33 – Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

    John 14:6-7 – Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

    John 14:9-11 – Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?”

    John 20:28 – And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

    Acts 4:12 – “Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

    Acts 20:28 – (God purchased us with His own blood)
    Revelation 1:5,6; Revelation 5:8-9 – (Jesus’ blood purchased us)

    Philippians 2:5-7 – Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bond-servant, and coming in the likeness of men.

    1 Timothy 3:16 – And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

    Titus 2:13 – looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ

    Hebrews 1:8,9 – But to the Son He (God) says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

    2 John 1:7 – For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    Revelation 1:8 – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    Revelation 22:13 – “I AM the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”… 22:16 – “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches

  84. Michael Eden Says:

    jackcent84,

    I couldn’t agree with you more or more quickly that “Jesus is God” is an accurate statement.

    John 1:1-3 clearly tell us that Jesus – a.k.a. “the Word” – was not merely God but the very Creator of the universe:

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

    Other passages are equally clear that Jesus Christ is the Creator:

    For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. — Colossians 1:16

    in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. — Hebrews 1:2

    Thus, when in Genesis we find the words:

    “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1) and “Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness … God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them” — Genesis 1:26-27

    we can understand that Christ, God the Son, created not only the world, but humanity. And that is important because we realize that Christ created man in His image so that one day He could assume man’s image and in so doing redeem mankind from the wages of death due to sin.

    By the way, another powerful understanding of Christ also comes from the Old Testament, which tells us, “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me” (Isaiah 43:11). And we then we learn that, “for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord” (Luke 2:11).

    Thank you very much for your list of passages.

  85. trankahelity Says:

    Maybe, they just don’t believe.
    Maybe, you’re just associating things with things you don’t have to.

    I just don’t dig what you’re saying. I don’t think there IS a connection between their belief system and the calamity. :-)

  86. Michael Eden Says:

    I just don’t dig what you’re saying

    trankahelity,

    You clearly don’t even have a CLUE what I’m saying, so it really doesn’t matter to me if you don’t dig what you clearly misunderstand.

    You obviously didn’t read this far into the article, let alone any farther, but I very quickly offer the following:

    But is Japan’s unbelief the reason why Japan just got hit with an awful tsunami?

    My answer is, “How on earth should I know?”

    You see, I don’t say what you say I said. But you’d have to bother to actually read the article before offering your opinion about it.

    I just wish that liberals would bother to read and understand before offering their opinions.

    I know that level of common sense and basic intellectual honesty will never happen on the part of the left, but I still wish it anyways.

  87. enlighten me Says:

    The bible is inaccurate, yes it may seem to contain so many proverbs that give so much about in life from the eldest men in history.yet how can we base a lifetime of spiritual commitment to one book, just one book that was initially editted not by christians but pagans. Though it may have been revised now by the church so many times, with so many versions, that same church is responsible for colonizing nonbelievers, grabbing their money from them, stealing their land, opposing the use of contraception to aid population control. It is a scientific fact that the whole universe is more than 10 billion years old. Yet the bible is just a few thousand years old, written by old people who knows almost nothing about effective science.

    “The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.  (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)”

  88. Michael Eden Says:

    enlighten me,

    It is truly tragic and I would also say truly pathetic that you’ve come to a completely false view of the Bible based on utter heresay assertions.

    The Bible was not “edited” by ANYBODY. It is the most – and I mean FAR AND AWAY THE MOST – textually established book in all of antiquity. We have so much manuscript evidence to support the reading of the Bible AS WE HAVE IT that it is beyond unreal.

    The “so many versions” are modern translations of the incredibly well established original language (Hebrew and Greek) manuscript evidence. The fact that publishers continue to try to find new ways to make the Bible either more “readable” or more appealing to different groups of people doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with the fact that the ancient manuscripts are incredibly well supported. It’s like the fact that we write the Bible in different languages so non-English speakers can read it. Does that somehow alter or undermine the integrity of the original text??? Your point is as silly as it is false.

    But you don’t care about the science of textual criticism or the archeology that supports it or anything. Because somebody somewhere told you a lie and you bought it.

    You proceed to make a lot of ridiculous claims: as a Protestant, I can use as much birth control as I want. “The Catholic Church” has nothing whatsoever to do with the integrity of the Bible; the Bible had been completely written for something like 500 years before the Catholic Church emerged (in the mid 5th century).

    I’m not going to get into an argument about the age of the universe simply because I don’t have to. Another thing you sadly misunderstand is that the Bible really doesn’t actually try to claim exactly when the universe was created. A lot of people, for instance, read their Bibles very literally and view the very real possibility that the Hebrew word “yom” doesn’t necessarily refer to “day” but rather “age”. Both “day” and “age” are posible because the word carries both meanings. Thus the Bible can be legitimately interpreted to read, “In the sixth age God created….”

    But having talked about the beginning of the universe, think about it: the universe began to exist at a point in time. Science says all matter, all energy, all time, etc. came into being from out of quite literally NOTHING. Your big bang requires a Big Banger, dude. On your view, everything just happened. There was nothing, there was nothing, there was nothing… and then “poof” suddenly there was everything.

    Your final verse is rather interesting, because the last I heard englighted man STILL talks about “sunrise” and sunset.” Is it just my Los Angeles Times and Desert Sun that actually says every single day what time sunrise and sunset occur??? And are you actually telling me that you think the sun rises in the east and sets in the west one day and then rises and sets somewhere else the next day? Does the sun rise in the west where your from or something???

    Frankly, I would submit that if you had any sense at all, it would actually amaze you – from your own verse that you quote – that the Bible used language over 4,000 years ago that modern scientific man STILL USES TODAY.

  89. enlighten me Says:

    The final verse simply reverberated the foolishness of some of the people who wrote the bible. Thinking the sun makes a fastbreak lay up to the other side of wherever just underneath the sunrise spot (perhaps cos it did seem fast for them while asleep at night) .

    Or maybe it is just another of those open-to-so-many-interpretation type of biblical thing. Well u see there isnt so much gray area if u use the scientific method that evolved us. 4000 years is a just single tick of the clock in the whole existence of everything that is still observed by science. The big bang theory erased the god notion because gravitation is the sole jumpstart of everything and nothingness can still be turned into something by the law of gravity. Not only Conservative protestantinism but many religious tenets tried to reconcile the big bang with their faith but they were all irrelevant. Theism simply couldn’t catch up with observable science.

    You wont consider and get to the argument about the age of the universe simply because you will lose if u do it. creationist and anti evolutionist point of view is obsolete.

    The modern scientific man relies on the scientific method to get his work done, to make discoveries and inventions helpful to attain evolution, progress.

    Your vision of the modern man involves the idea of a person backtracking the roots and multiple definitions a single ANCIENT word can have. Praying to a transparent omnipresent figure. Waiting for a placebo effect aka blessing that science cannot ever quantify. And call it sensible.

  90. Michael Eden Says:

    enlighten me,

    I just responded to you and interacted with everything you said; you completely lack that courtesy. It’s like you couldn’t hear or read or understand anything I told you because all you hear are the demons in your skull or something.

    Again, you cited a passage. I pointed out the FACT that WE USE THE SAME LANGUAGE TODAY. YOU YOURSELF HAVE USED THE SAME TERMS OF SUNRISE AND SUNSET, YOU HYPOCRITE.

    Pink Floyd – again, in the modern scientific age, used language that was every bit as much “foolishness.”

    So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it’s sinking
    Racing around to come up behind you again
    .
    The sun is the same in a relative way but you’re older,
    Shorter of breath and one day closer to death.

    Now, I understand, “enlighten me,” that you lack both the basic intelligence and the common sense to understand that the great band Pink Floyd did NOT think that the earth revolves around the sun. You’re just not smart enough or decent enough or wise enough to give these modern people the benefit of the doubt. You can’t comprehend that they’re using a figure of speech that was old when the Bible was written and that the Bible merely similarly uses figures of speech that we STILL use today in our modern age exactly as they were used in the Bible. Just as you are neither decent enough nor wise enough to give every news meteorologist or every newspaper the benefit of the doubt when they talk about sunrise and sunset. Either that or you’re just an abject hypocrite and a complete waste of time.

    For the record, you merely continue to document what a fool you are when you talk about the big bang disproving God.

    Albert Einstein actually added a “cosmological constant” becase he understood that if the universe was in fact exploding apart it meant that the universe had a beginning. And he did not want to allow for a Creator. Einstein literally divided his equation by zero in order to force it to support his atheistic point of view. He was completely wrong, and he was exposed as being completely wrong, and he later admitted it was the biggest mistake of his life. You’re not capable of learning from his mistake, “enlighten me,” because you are what the Bible calls “a fool.”

    If Albert Einstein’s example isn’t enough to refute your frankly idiotic notion that the big bang disproves God rather than the other way around, think also of the great physicist Robert Jastrow, who said on reflection of the sheer ramifications of the big bang cosmology that established that the universe had a beginning JUST AS THE HOLY BIBLE REPEATEDLY SAID IT DID:

    “For the scientist who has lived by faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

    Jastrow’s point alone utterly refutes your idiocy.

    On your truly idiotic view, there was no matter, no space, no time, no energy. There was NOTHING. And there was nothing, there was nothing, there was nothing, there was nothing … and then POOF there was EVERYTHING. And you have the stark raving moral and intellectual stupidity to say that everything all just happened; that all matter, all energy, all time, all space just suddenly appeared where there had been NOTHING due to what? Gravitation??? Seriously??? Should I check my empty boxes periodically lest a brand new freaking universe suddenly appear in them???

    Furthermore, when you yap at me about the scientific method, I’ve got to laugh. Because the scientific method and virtually every single branch of science was discovered by a Christian. See more proof of that here. And in fact science itself uniquely emerged from Christianity out of specifially Judeo-Christian premises. Science arose out of Christendom BECAUSE of Christendom.

    Loren Eisely admitted the following:

    “Although we may recognize the frailties of Christian dogma and deplore the unconscionable persecution of thought which is one of the less appetizing aspects of medieval history, we must also observe that in one of those strange permutations of which history yields occasional rare examples, it is the Christian world which finally gave birth in a clear articulate fashion to the experimental method of science itself. Many things undoubtedly went into that amalgam: Greek logic and philosophy, the experimental methods of craftsmen in the arts as opposed to the aristocratic thinker-all these things have been debated. But perhaps the most curious element of them all is the factor dwelt upon by Whitehead-the sheer act of faith that the universe possessed order and could be interpreted by rational minds [Whitehead, A.N., "Science and the Modern World," Mentor, 1948, pp.4-15]. For, as Whitehead rightly observes, [Ibid., p.17] the philosophy of experimental science was not impressive. It began its discoveries and made use of its method in the faith, not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational universe controlled by a Creator who did not act upon whim nor interfere with the forces He had set in operation. The experimental method succeeded beyond men’s wildest dreams but the faith that brought it into being owes something-to the Christian conception of the nature of God [Ibid., p. 14]. It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of history that science which professionally has little to do with faith, owes its origins to an act of faith that the universe can be rationally interpreted, and that science today-is sustained by that assumption.” — (Eiseley, L.C., 1958, “Darwin’s Century: Evolution and the Men Who Discovered It,” Anchor Books: Doubleday & Co: Garden City NY, Reprinted, 1961, p.62).

    Lorein Eisely and Alfred Whitehead are great and famous thinkers – who were NOT Christians, btw – who had something that you lack: the ability to understand basic facts of history. The scientific method which you stupidly cite to refute Christianity CAME FROM Christianity. You cannot separate the scientific method from Christianity and be an intellectually honest person.

    You literally refute yourself boasting about the scientific method and the science that MY side created, but the fool never understands when he is refuted. Such is the nature of a fool.

    One thing is for certain: I’m not going to keep wasting my time with a fool for whom whatever I say is merely ignored altogether. You didn’t even bother to TRY to interact with a single thing I said earlier. There is simply no point whatsoever having a “discussion” with somebody who did what you did: ignore my points as if I hadn’t said anything. So I’m through with you.

  91. Anonymous Says:

    I know this is old. And I don’t know if anyones posted the same thing. But I’m doing a PHD in Japanese religion and I can safely tell you they are anything BUT Atheist. The reason these satistics say they are is because they have a dislike for organised religion. However, most if not all Japanese people pray to the Kami for help, go to temples to offer offerings. Just because their religion doesn’t display it’s self in a similar way as over here does not make them atheist. So no, most of this article is wrong. And based around satistics that don’t work in accordance to Japanese belief. Indeed, it’s the total opposite. Japan is one of the most religious countries in the world. If any of you wish for me to present further evidence, that that is easy. However, it takes up a lot of my time, and judging by the author of this article, I would probably be wasting my time.

  92. Michael Eden Says:

    Anonymous,

    I welcome being corrected. Nothing would make me happier than every single Japanese person on earth receiving Jesus as Savior. But when I document the statistics and someone like you comes along and says, “My small personal experience trumps all other studies,” well, I kind of toss such people’s assertions into the garbage bin.

    And given that you are every bit as intolerant as the person you claim I am by your final words, well, I’m really not very optimistic that you wouldn’t provide anything other than crap. Because all I’m doing when I assert that is being every bit as dismissive to you as you have already shown that YOU are to me. You are already very clearly somebody who did not bother to intelligently read the article I wrote; rather you read the headline and a very little else like a rather dumb 1st grader and then stupidly jumped to the completely incorrect conclusion rather than what I was actually arguing.

    PhD students who have never learned how to read before jumping to their thoroughly indoctrinated conclusions are the most dangerous and stupid people on earth. Because they get their PhDs and are allegedly experts but they even MORE stupid and MORE biased than they were the day they started their PhD edcuation. Because they got themselves on an incredibly ideologically narrow little train track and never seriously interacted with anything that could seriously contradict them.

    You read a title which I immediately pointed out was intentionally provocative, idiotically concluded that I was asserting that God hates atheists and therefore smashed them with a tsunami without bothering to read or understand my message, and actually wrote a comment based on your personal ignorance and stupidity regarding my position. In having done so, you represent how seriously wrong higher education has truly gone rather than demonstrating any kind of “expertise” in Japanese religion or anything else. And the ignorant masses who don’t have anywhere near my experience with upper-level education naively assume that ideologues like you surely must know what you’re talking about when the only thing you have truly mastered is leftist and secular humanist talking points and a ridiculously flawed methodology that guarantees that you will always experience selective confirmation bias in whatever project you purport to seriously examine.

    I know you’re going to mock Wikipedia because it fundamentally contradicts you. It says that:

    Figures that state 84% to 96% of Japanese adhere to Shinto and Buddhism are not based on self-identification but come primarily from birth records, following a longstanding practice of officially associating a family line with a local Buddhist temple or Shinto shrine.

    It says for instance that:

    About 70% of Japanese profess no religious membership

    In fact, it says that:

    84% of the Japanese claim no personal religion.

    It says that:

    In census questionnaires, less than 15% reported any formal religious affiliation by 2000

    And it says that:

    And according to Demerath (2001:138), 65% do not believe in God, and 55% do not believe in Buddha.[10] According to Edwin Reischauer, and Marius Jansen, some 70–80% of the Japanese regularly tell pollsters they do not consider themselves believers in any religion. [Source: The Japanese today: change and continuity (2nd ed.). Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. 1988. p. 215. ISBN 978-0-674-47184-9].

    But, hey, you clearly know more than anybody else who ever lived or who ever studied anything. And if Wikipedia cites studies by people who already HAVE their damn PhDs, well they fall down before your all-knowledge.

  93. piss off Says:

    All you crazy ass Christian white people need to fuck off.

  94. Michael Eden Says:

    piss off,

    I suppose you’re right.

    You racist anti-Christian bigots will surely inherit the earth. Because the Antichrist is coming and you will worship him and take his mark.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 520 other followers

%d bloggers like this: